Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 78: Bridging Worlds with Jermaine Van Buren Jr.
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Jermaine Van Buren Jr. opens up about the painful realities of living between two worlds—navigating white academic spaces and Black church communities while struggling with a fractured sense of identity. Labeled an “Oreo” and exhausted by code-switching, Jermaine found healing in Black mentorship and spiritual truth: "God made you Black on purpose." Now leading campus ministry at Jackson State University, Jermaine shares how anchoring identity in Christ—rather than cultural expectations—can free the next generation. This episode dives deep into race, reconciliation, and how authentic faith breaks down walls of ignorance. Tune in to hear one man’s journey of becoming whole and helping others do the same.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled. I am your host, brian Crawford, and I am with my good friends Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle, co-hosts. Gentlemen, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Wonderful man. I'm just thankful each week that I'm your incredible friend.
Speaker 3:I know you remind me every week it's like my weekly check-in to let me know that I matter in life.
Speaker 1:You matter in life. Well, that's good. I'm glad to hear that my kind comments on the beginning of a podcast can help you know that you matter, man. There's a lot of other people that matter, by the way no-transcript and Mr Robert Ward. Thank you guys so much. In the words of Austin, you matter to Mission Mississippi even if you didn't sponsor us, but you certainly matter to us. Because of you we're able to do what we do, and what we're able to do is have a great conversation, like we do week in and week out, great conversations with great people all over the state and even beyond.
Speaker 1:Today, one of our great conversations is going to be had with a friend, jermaine Van Buren Jr. Jermaine Van Buren Jr. We will hear much about his life and story, but he is the campus director for the Jackson State University chapter of the Reform University Fellowship. Jermaine is a husband, he is a pastor or elder, he is a leader in the Presbyterian Church, particularly the Presbyterian Church where he serves Redeemer Church in the heart of Jackson Mississippi, right there on Northside Drive, and it's a pleasure to have Jermaine on the pod today. Brother, how are you doing?
Speaker 4:Man, I'm doing great. What a great introduction. What a great introduction.
Speaker 1:Man, we try our best, isn't that right, nettie?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, man. I'd like to take you on the road with me. Man, to introduce me. But you know you pointed out some friends of ours as they sponsored the broadcast and the podcast. You know, austin and I are just incredible friends. Now, those friends are what? What are they? Great, incredible friends. How do you describe you know? Anyway, go on with your.
Speaker 1:Special, special friends. They're special friends Very special, all right. They're very special, very special, very special, very special. So, jermaine brother, we would love to hear a little bit about your life and story. Just to start out this episode. If you don't mind, take a moment and tell us a little bit about your family, tell us a little bit about how you came to faith and tell us about how you ended up at RUF on the campus of Jackson State University ended up at RUF on the campus of Jackson State University.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. So I was born in Hattiesburg, mississippi, and I've lived all 18 of my years in Hattiesburg. I moved around a couple times, but I call Hattiesburg my home. I'm a burg built home of the base burg. You know the dirty burg as some have called it. Uh, but I I do love Hattiesburg. I still love that green snowball stand on Broadway drive. Uh, where it stood the test of time even through hurricane Katrina. Um, and so I've. I've been in, um, like I said, grown up in Hattiesburg.
Speaker 2:You mean in all the places that got damaged by the storm, the snowball place stands.
Speaker 4:The snowball place stands the test of time, and that's a sermon in and of itself.
Speaker 2:You know I'm going to go back there next time in Hattiesburg, and I got to get a snowball from that place.
Speaker 4:You do, you do. You need to go get a Tiger's Blood or a Tutti Frutti snowball.
Speaker 2:I get a Tutti.
Speaker 4:Frutti I don't like to wear a tag or anything.
Speaker 3:I think I grew up going to that stand man. I must have been walking there when I was a kid, because I remember the Tiger.
Speaker 4:I know you did.
Speaker 3:I grew up drinking Tiger's Blood. Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4:So I grew up going to Mount Olive Baptist Church with Reverend Arthur Sigur he's actually my cousin and then we shifted, when my mom got remarried, to Shady Grove Missionary Baptist Church with Reverend Reginald Willard Jr as the pastor missionary Baptist tradition and I was man just so formed by the men and women in that church who loved me and gave me a space to lead. But also there were some key men and women there that just also checked my soul and asked me like, well, how are you doing really? You're singing all the time, you're teaching Sunday school, you're doing all of this, but how are you doing really? And I think that's probably where God planted a seed in me.
Speaker 4:I didn't really come to faith until college, but while I was in high school, middle school, my whole life was school, church and school and church and sleep, sleep and school and church, and so, yeah, my parents got divorced. When I was young, dad played in MLB, played for a couple teams that y'all might know. Some of y'all might not like the teams, but he played for the Red Sox Washington Nationals.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he played on the minor league team on the Washington Nation nationals. He did. Uh, yeah, yeah, I saw, I saw the jersey, I saw. Well, I I'll go ahead and say I looked up jermaine van berwin online because I was like man, jermaine van berwin, I know I can find something about jermaine van berwin online. And then I was like, wait a second, he is a junior and the son of a major league baseball player. That was an interesting tidbit that I did not know before this pod.
Speaker 3:And I actually got prepared to interview your father. But when I saw you I was like you guys look very different and you look a lot younger than the photos I found online. No, I'm just joking. I'm just joking.
Speaker 4:Right, right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, that would be a different interview entirely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right yeah that would be a different interview entirely.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely man, but yeah, so, and I grew up playing baseball, but I really found my passion in high school when I did speech and debate in theater, and so that's that's really. When I was in high school. I would spend my weekends going to speech and debate tournaments, preparing and memorizing lines. Yeah Is.
Speaker 2:Shane still the debate coach at Oak Grove.
Speaker 4:Shane Cole. He is still the debate coach at Oak Grove.
Speaker 3:His first year was the year after my last year in speech and debate in that program.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, actually it's a great program. I really think, like when I get into, when I talk about, like you know, my calling as a pastor, I really think my time and speech and debate has shaped the way I communicate. But yeah, when I grew up, I obviously grew up in a church but, like I said, even though I had people around me that shaped me and formed me, I didn't really know what it meant to be a Christian, didn't really know what it meant to live out the gospel in a saving way, and so that just kind of led to a lot of performance and self-righteousness. I could put on a face before the right people but not really have any spiritual fruit.
Speaker 4:And then, when it comes to my racial awakening, I mean I've always been, since I was young, in a predominantly black church but going to a predominantly white school, and then, because of the circles that I'm in, I've always been in sort of a multi-ethnic context. My best friends growing up were two black men, moses Williams and Tony Romanek, who were both theater, both artists, and then I had a Vietnamese friend, hispanic friend and a couple of white friends are probably like my close knit friend group, and so I've always kind of just had a multi-ethnic upbringing and my mom that's kind of how my mom raised us but also raised us to have to be, to be unapologetically Black and to lean into the goodness of Black culture, and I kind of saw that. Like you know, black movies, love and Basketball, boys in the Hood Higher Learning a lot of Spike Lee.
Speaker 1:Coming to America.
Speaker 4:Coming to America. But also you know Fred Hammett, kirk Franklin, brett Brown, clark, just some of the staples of gospel music. But it was hard when I was in high school I don't really know who I was.
Speaker 2:A lot of people call me a choreo when you say it was hard. Fold it just a little bit. What was hard?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think it was hard because when I was in high school I didn't really know who I was and so because I was an actor, it's part of that like putting on. You know, if I go back and forth between certain groups, I can put on and not really know who Jermaine is. So when I'm with the black folks, I'll be black Jermaine. When I'm with the in my AP classes, I'll be smart Jermaine. When I'm in the white circles, I'll be smart Jermaine. When I'm in the white circles, I'll be white Jermaine. And so you know it's just it. A lot of people called me and some other students, black students, Oreos. You know you're black on the outside but you're white on the inside because maybe you talked well or you listen to Paramore. You know many different reasons, and so I think that kind of was difficult for me when I was in my adolescence to walk through.
Speaker 1:You know we talk about code switching a lot in social circles as it relates to professional space. You know, in terms of code switching, when you you know you're one persona at home, then you code switch to be another persona in whatever company that you happen to be in when you're living out your vocational life. But we don't talk about how that plays out, even for some in their youth, you know, based on the multi-ethnic and multicultural experiences that they have to be involved in, and so you can, literally, you know, I remember similar Jermaine, growing up in a predominantly white Catholic school and living in a predominantly working class. You know, black neighborhood and and all the time spending all my days after school at a predominantly black barbershop or or beauty shop, because my dad and my dad was a barber, my mom was a cosmetologist and so and so, yeah, making those switches and adjustments and being not even necessarily knowing who you are, so to speak. Yeah, that's really interesting, man. Keep continue to elaborate, man, on some of the challenges that you faced in that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I will say that, like man, even amidst the challenges, the barbershop has always been a place to where I felt like a safe space for black manhood. Now, mind you, the conversations were not always safe, right, Like you know, depending on where you are on the political spectrum, rap spectrum, whatever, like you're going to hear everything. But I think it definitely felt like a place to where, as a black man, you can go speak your mind, maybe even be comforted like have it's kind of felt like like a black mental health, black self-aware.
Speaker 1:It absolutely was a black, a black man's therapeutic center. Goodness.
Speaker 4:I remember the names of my barbers over the years more than I remember members of my own family like Jerry, aunt Benny, maurice Q Blocker and now Timothy Love. Those are my men.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, absolutely, brother, Talk to me. Yeah, keep, those are my men. Yes, yes, absolutely brother, talk to me. Yeah, keep going, keep going.
Speaker 4:Well, I was going to say I think another part of what was hard was my senior year of high school. I started to. I've always written poetry, but I noticed that in my senior year of high school I would say I experienced maybe more of a blackening, a black awakening. Senior year of high school, I would say I experienced maybe more of a blackening, a black awakening. I had joined well, I had crossed into Hattiesburg Kappa League, which is you know for those who don't know is a junior auxiliary of Kappa, Alpha Psi, and when I was in that junior auxiliary community service organization, man, I feel like there was a part of me that felt more legitimate in my blackness I actually had like brothers, so to speak, where we spent time together, we were serving the community together, we were hanging out together, we were going through the same process together. I actually feel like I had a chance to meet people that went to Hattiesburg High and formed relationships with them and it just kind of opened my eyes to see some of the beauty of Blackness that maybe I wasn't leaning into wholly at Oak Grove, but it was hard because I would experience that and that was like a junior auxiliary. I spent maybe one hour a week with them. But then the whole eight hours of my experience at Oak Grove was predominantly white and so it was kind of hard to navigate that. But yeah, as I think back to where I was mentally in that space when I was in high school, my poetry and my thoughts, I would say, started to get a little bit more militant or activated in blackness and in culture.
Speaker 4:I remember one time I used to lead the announcements at the school because of my theater's folks who speaks to debate role Every morning they always have announcements and I would come in and do the announcements one time, and one time I just took a moment of silence during the announcements. Didn't really clear with anybody, it was sort of rebellious. But I took a moment of silence during the announcements. Didn't really clear with anybody, it was sort of rebellious. But I took a moment of silence because it was around that time where I can't remember who exactly was an unarmed black man that was gunned down. But then it also led to an attack of some police officers in Dallas who were gunned down.
Speaker 2:I remember that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was taking a moment of silence for all of that, but then the the, the announcements got cut. The person who led the announcement said you did not clear that with the principal and I was. They said I couldn't do the announcements anymore. And I remember that even now is like man, like even though I didn't clear it with the principal, I should have cleared it with them. It still felt like man, like I'm not able to grieve this tragedy that's affecting not only black folks but also man, those unarmed policemen in Dallas, because of all of this. And it just kind of grieved my spirit right there and I would say since from that point in my senior year that kind of led me to some of the choices that I made relationally in college.
Speaker 1:And so talk to us about the journey into a church like Redeemer, which is obviously heavily multi-ethnic and that's one of the emphasis there, and, of course, the work of RUF, which is historically predominantly been in white spaces, white colleges, but the work of RUF in a predominantly not predominantly, but historically Black university and college like Jackson State University. So talk to us about some of that bridge building labor and work that you've been activated in post high school.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. There are like four years, from 2016 to 2020, that I need to gloss over before I answer that question. So, went to college, got converted maybe my sophomore year became a Christian and then also in that kind of, became tokenized, assimilated into the predominantly white culture of the campus, ministry and the church that I was a part of kind of lost myself again.
Speaker 4:But then I came to seminary during COVID, and it was when I was at seminary from 2020 to 2024, where I was surrounded by just Black Christian men and women who just mentored me and kind of healed the parts of my soul that were assimilated, that were tokenized, that really didn't know who they were. It just shared the love of Jesus with me and I remember one quote in specific. Jasmine Holmes says in her book Mother to Son God made you black on purpose, and the way I interpret that is you know, he makes me black on purpose, not so that I can be a militant secular activist black person or to to to use my blackness as a weapon, but more so like God has created all of these cultures distinctly that show how beautiful he is. Yes, and that in leaning into my culture I actually lean into how beautiful God is. And God, as a master painter, uses all of these colors and textures and brushstrokes that we know are ethnic groups to paint a beautiful picture of humanity.
Speaker 4:And it was that, maybe narrative, that led me into considering working and being in Redeemer and being in RUF, but yeah, so how I got into RUF, how I got into Redeemer, well, I knew at maybe the tail end of my college career that I wanted to be in a multi-ethnic church. Like I said, I've been in a multi-ethnic lifestyle my whole life. We had a missions conference at one of our campus ministries, called Psalm 67. And just by reading through Psalm 67 and being in that missions conference, I was convinced that God right now wants me to be in a multi-ethnic space. This is where I feel the most comfortable. This is where I feel this is where my journey is going. It's not everybody's journey, but it's my journey, where I'm going. And so, yeah, I was looking for multi-ethnic churches in the area. I was leaning really towards New Orleans Baptist when I was in college, but then the Lord led me towards RTS and it just kind of made sense. Elbert McGowan's video was on the website of RTS Jackson.
Speaker 1:Pastor Elbert from Redeemer.
Speaker 4:Yeah yeah, pastor Elbert is the pastor at Redeemer. He was also the one that planted RUF Jackson State in 2009,. First RUF at HBCU, yes, and so it just kind of made sense. I had no idea about RUF when I was a senior in college, but I would come to know it when I was in seminary, and so that's what led me into Redeemer when I got here in 2020.
Speaker 4:And then, from 2020 to 2024, I just had a series of conversations with my pastors Brian Galt, with Elmer McGowan, with Wilson Jameson and some other RUF students at RTS Jackson who were going to seminary. They may have served as an intern on staff with RUF, but they wanted to do seminary to be an ordained campus minister. And I was like, well, I don't really know what RUF is. Somebody tell me what it is Like. What is this college ministry? What is this connection to the PCA? What is all of this, and is there a space to do a multi-ethnic or black ministry?
Speaker 4:In this context, and as I have more conversations with guys like Marcus Nobles, who does RUF at A&M, cyril Chavis, who does RUF at Howard, and Elle, who did RUF at Jackson State, started it, and Latasha Alston, who served at Jackson State as like a for 10 years. She has like a true RUF story to where she was a student and then became an intern. They became campus staff and served at that same campus for 10 plus years. That just kind of alerted me to the sense that this predominantly white denomination has an interest in becoming Go ahead.
Speaker 2:You were talking about. You didn't know what RUF was. For our audience. Won't you give us a brief definition of what RUF stands for and so forth and how that's affiliated with universities and other campus ministries?
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, yes sir. So RUF stands for Reformed University Fellowship. Its mission is to reach students for Christ and equip them to serve, and it is the college ministry of the Presbyterian Church in America. Presbyterian Church in America is different than the Presbyterian Church in the United States. It's different than the other Presbyterian denominations. The Presbyterian Church in America is different than the Presbyterian Church in the United States, is different than the other Presbyterian denominations. The Presbyterian Church in America has been around since 1970s, founded in Birmingham, and RUF is the arm of, or the extension of, the Presbyterering Church on college campuses.
Speaker 4:And maybe one of the distinguishing factors between RUF and BSU Wesley InterVarsity, the campus outreach crew, is that, yeah, there's a strong emphasis on the local church and to that point, you really don't have a RUF without a ordained man that is ordained in a PCA serving on campus. And so, yeah, that's that's why I'm going through the ordination process, so that we can bring that to Jackson State. And I would say also, a big part of RUF that is distinct is its commitment to a fixed theology and a flexible methodology. Fixed theology in the sense to where we're committed to the faith, as we see it in our part, coming from the Westminster Confession of Faith. But every campus is going to do ministry differently because every campus has a specific demographic, even across HBCUs, and so there's a flexible methodology that characterizes RUF.
Speaker 4:But it's a gospel ministry. We preach the gospel, we share the word with students across a pulpit, across a table in the parking lot and we want to see lives changed for the gospel.
Speaker 2:So how do y'all interact with the other campus ministries?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we, as the opportunities come up on Jackson State, we kind of cultivate a relationship with the other seven other six campus ministries. We are starting, we're really resurrecting a council of Campus Ministries. This year we have the Wesley InterVarsity Baptist Student Union, fca. There's a student-led ministry, rising Kingdom, and this past year we partnered and we had a worship night on campus. We had a sort of evangelistic training time with Black Voices Movement out of LA, with the other campus ministries, and so I would say right now we're in a resurrecting, forming phase to where, if all of the boards or the leadership can get on one accord in this next year we'll be partnering and doing some of the similar things that we did last year.
Speaker 2:So your integration of all of this, how did Well I guess I probably should make a statement rather than a question but the intentionality of your parents to have you in a multicultural, multiracial situation, as you have intentionally done that as well how have that prepared you to work in this, what some people may perceive an all black situation?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, that's a that's a great question. So I think, yeah, my, I think my mom was very instrumental in just instilling a love of my blackness, my dad as well. But then I also think my dad prepared me well to receive and love multiple cultures. I think one because he is also married interracially my stepmother, my bonus mom, is white. And then two, he's played Major League Baseball and he's been, you know, he's had teammates from the Dominican Republic, he's had teammates from Taiwan when he played in Taiwan, and so I think he also imparted to me the wisdom in cultivating cultural relationships and seeing the good in every culture and every ethnicity.
Speaker 4:But yeah, I think that me and Brian talked about this at another time being at an HBCU really does feel like I'm at home, but also I feel like a stranger in a sense, because for one, I feel at home because I'm I mean, I'm black, you know what I'm saying Like I'm in a black campus and there's beauty in, maybe, the micro diversity in HBCU. You know, you've got students from all across the nation, all, even even across the globe, that come to Jackson State from St Louis, memphis, new Orleans, cali. We've got some students from Britain, from Queens and so, and those are different types of black people and I just love seeing that diversity on the campus, but then too, I feel like a stranger because HBCU culture is a different microculture within blackness. I think that it's family.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's family, it's family, yeah yeah, yeah, it's family.
Speaker 3:And the traditions the songs.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the traditions, the songs, the history, like I feel as if I'm a student really of Jackson State and of HBCU culture in a sense. I highly recommend to our listeners and to just y'all here. Man Aisha Roscoe wrote a book called HBCU Made and she collects essays from prominent celebrities. Stacey Abrams I think that's her name, yeah, roy Wood Jr that went to HBCUs and just kind of talk about their experience. That was helpful for me to kind of get a sense of how big the sea is when you jump into the sea of HBCU culture.
Speaker 1:Man, we do not have enough time for this pod bro. We do not have enough time. Austin, jump in man. I know you got some questions bro.
Speaker 3:I was because I love so much for your story, jermaine, and it seems like you know because we both went to the same high school and actually I was a part of UF all four years, not at JSU, but all four years of my college life at Mississippi College, with Joey Wright as the campus leader and then Jeff Jordan shortly after that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm sure you know Jeff I think he's heading out of MC. But, man, I just love to hear how everything and how God has just interwoven all of these different aspects and all these different threads within your story, because I just think it's so beautiful ethnic spaces wrestling with identity and belonging, walking through all of these seasons of performance and ultimately just coming to a place where you find healing and wholeness in Christ. So part of your journey just seems to like just be preparing you for the work that you are currently doing. And now you've stepped into this calling of RUF at Jackson State. I just think that's beautiful. Beginning to do this really intentional work on the XBCU campuses, you've been able to connect with a lot of people that you have been able to see do the work for you. So you found mentorship.
Speaker 3:I'm just seeing all these really good signs within your story that I think, from a Christian perspective, I think we want to really want to focus on and on top of that, you're not doing your work in isolation. You're finding out how you can be in combined relational work with BSU, fsa, the Wesley Foundation I think you mentioned CRU. My cousin was also a campus director for Crew for, I think over in Alabama, I think, the Huntsville campus. I don't know where he's at right now, though. So I mean it's this really beautiful picture of just how you've been able to work within this body of Christ, both the white world, the black world, this up on Christ, both the white world, the black world, all the different denominational boundaries that you're able to just wander through while also remaining true to the Reformed faith that God has called you into.
Speaker 3:So I guess I want to hear, based on the experience you've had thus far, based on your story, your calling, the mission of RUF, the partners that you've been able to build, how do you see God, just like all of these pieces together to reach and to disciple students at Jackson State? What kind of work is God doing right now that you can kind of foresee, like? What do you see happening in the next year? How do you see some of these kids being just deeply, deeply impacted? How are you helping them overcome some of the same challenges? You know the seasons of performance, all of that, being able to find your own identity, and just a sea of influences and expectations. So like, how do you, how do you see yourself being able to be used by God for these similar things in their lives.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question. You know, I'm reminded of when John the Baptist was in his ministry and he's this crazy man in the wilderness, dressed in camel hair, eating honey and locusts, and he says I don't know about the locusts, but go ahead. And he says I don't know about the locusts, but go ahead.
Speaker 3:It's clear you've never been to the insectarium in New Orleans and gotten a Cajun dip. Locust Sources of protein you need it. You need it.
Speaker 4:Exactly. But yeah, but John the Baptist. He says you know, I must decrease, he must increase, and that has maybe been what I've returned to over this course of this year that I've been at Jackson State. The Lord has used my life and has shaped me so much, and yet I think the only way that I can impart the mere wisdom that God has given me over my time is I first need to listen, and I need to listen to the stories of glory and ruin that come forth from my students. I've talked to a lot of students, but over the course of my year I've just heard stories of deep relational heartbreak.
Speaker 4:Parents that man are in the home and married, but you would think that they are strangers. Students that have struggled with suicidal ideations, struggle with anxiety and depression. They're asking you know, does God want me to join a Greek organization? How do I get connected? How do I spend my money? They've been on the run from police. They've been achievers in their own right in their church, but they don't know how to pray. And so it's just. I think the way that God has molded me has allowed me to step aside so that I can hold space for them and their becoming, and I think it helps me to see that man, these students are in the crucible. Now it is their time to grow and they could grow into the world or they could grow into Christ, into Christ. And in the snapshot of time that I have with them, it's my responsibility to point them away from finding their identity and finding their meaning in the world and to find their meaning and identity in God. And we've seen that this year.
Speaker 4:I was talking to a student and he grew up in a homogenized life. He went to Jackson public schools, went to a predominantly black church. For all intents and purposes he didn't really have a close relationship with a white person. And even at the beginning of the year, maybe in August, september, we were talking and he told me I don't see the relevance, I don't see the importance of having somebody white in my life, it doesn't mean anything. And then we get like, over the year I've met with him repeatedly, he's one of my closest leaders uh, going through the book of Ephesians and we come to May and he tells me, and he tells my wife, like I'm so thankful that I know Laurie, laurie's my wife. Uh, laurie is probably the only white person that I know, and she is a friend of mine now, like it's a blessing, and I was like, wow, that is beautiful, right, god, tearing down walls, but not even hostile walls, more so, just like walls that we don't really know they're there Also, just like walls that we don't really know.
Speaker 3:They're there, right. Why they're there?
Speaker 4:Yes, walls of ignorance.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, and so maybe that's one story that I think about all the time.
Speaker 4:Another story I think about is, yeah, like students are hungry for the word, I think I've seen on several podcasts, several books, that Gen Z is actually wanting the faith.
Speaker 4:They're zealous for the word, zealous for Christian community, and I would say that's probably what we've seen this past year, as, when we look at RUF as a ministry man, students have been hungry for Christian community. They're on campus and they have community in their classes or in their majors, but they don't really have a distinct Christian community where they can bring their questions and their struggles about faith, and that is what RUF has become for these students. And so, looking ahead to the next year, what I really, I would say my biggest prayer or my biggest ask from God, is for him to break up the cliques in RUF and really just across the campus ministries, because, man, like the beauty of the church, is that you have all of these people from different political organizations, different ethnicities, different classes, different educations, and you're bringing them into one space knit by the blood of Christ and that's kind of what I want our students in this next year at RUF to lean into.
Speaker 4:You've got students here who went to private school. You've got students that grew up in the hood. You've got students that grew up in a two-parent household and they're the only child. You've got students here that are on full scholarship, and then you got students that are working two jobs to put themselves through school. I want my students, especially my student leaders, to lean into loving all of the students that are in our group Practically't like practically and reasonably. We can't love everybody on campus in the way that we can love somebody that's close to us, um, but as far as RUF is concerned, I want our students really just to to love one another, to have conversations with people that you don't know in the ministry, cause I think that starts the the wheel of love turning um in our ministry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, while, while, while you're praying for our UF, lift a few prayers up for our local churches as well. That they would, that they would de-click and uh, and adopt that same love posture, because I think it's something that we all, we all need to embrace. Yeah, yeah, and I was gonna say that's, that's another thing.
Speaker 4:Like there we often say you know you're not doing RUF if you're not connecting students to the local church. Yeah, so that's why I think it's all the more apparent, apparent that our students learn to love one another, because that prepares them for when you graduate and you don't have ministry. Well now you need to transfer everything that you've learned.
Speaker 1:And because the diversity expands, the diversity expands.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, the diversity expands the experiences, the variety of experiences expands, and these students, the local church family with families in the church and older men and women who have gone through life to be with them as they're going through their college.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, instead of afterwards.
Speaker 4:You're absolutely right. They need those relationships while they're freshmen.
Speaker 2:While they're sophomores yes. Hey, you know, brian, I've been wanting to do this ever since we started this podcast. You ended by saying putting a bow on it. I think Jermaine has put a bow on this thing for us, and so I've been wanting to say that, man, am I still your incredible friend? Because I said he put a bow on it.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no. He has definitely put a bow on it in many ways. This no, no, no, no. He has definitely put a bow on it in many ways. This is how I want to wrap it up. Jermaine, I got two things. I would love for you opportunity for reconciliation. From your perspective and your vantage point, what's the greatest challenge you're faced with? What's the greatest opportunity that you see?
Speaker 4:They both could be the same. Yeah, absolutely yeah, you know, I think that they really are the same, nettie, and I mean I hate to give a Sunday school answer, but it really is. The challenge to reconciliation is a sinful heart an opportunity? It's a challenge because, no matter what program you do, no matter what Bible study you take somebody through, no matter what experience you try to craft for them, if their heart is hard, they're not going to be able to receive the goodness and the love of what's happening. But it's an opportunity because man, the gospel, is just so powerful, it's so transformational that it takes that heart of stone and gives it a heart of flesh, a heart that's able to respond to the goodness of God.
Speaker 4:And I believe that reconciliation, right as Paul says, is part of God's heart. Right, we are called to bring people from death to life by the gospel, by the Holy Spirit. And so I think that, because the problem, from my vantage point, is the sinful, tribalistic, selfish rebellion of the human heart, especially in our Gen Z, the opportunity is also receiving the gospel and meeting a Black Gen Z's love for the gospel and love for church, love for God, meeting that with sound gospel teaching and say, hey, this faith that is around you, this church thing that your parents have done, these songs that you sing all the time. They have real, eternal meaning for the way that you relate to the people around you and the way that you think about cross-cultural relationships. Let's have that conversation. That's what I would say.
Speaker 1:Jermaine, how can folks keep up with you, brother?
Speaker 4:How can you keep up with me? You can follow me on Instagram. You can follow me on Facebook Jermaine Jr. On Instagram Facebook Jermaine Van Buren. You can also follow RUF on Instagram RUFJSU. You can also follow RUF on Instagram RUFJSU. And we have a website as well. Just Google RUF, jackson State, it'll take you to our website. And then, yeah, if you want to talk, if you want to connect with me, just reach out to Brian. He has my contact info.
Speaker 1:My email is simple jermainevanburen at RUForg. Excellent, excellent. Jermaine, thank you so very much for your time. Thank you so very much for the ministry and your careful, careful, careful care of that ministry and of the students at Jackson State University. Man, we need more people in the faith like you, man, in the trenches on our college campuses, and so we're grateful for you.
Speaker 1:This has been an excellent podcast with our friend Jermaine and with my good friends Nettie and Austin. Let me make a plug. This is the first plug of the year. On September the 25th, at six o'clock, we will be hosting our Living Reconciled Celebration this year on the college campus of Mississippi College, anderson Hall. We would love for you to go ahead and plug that date in your calendar. Save the date. We plan on having an incredible evening with more details to come, but we want you to go ahead and plug that date on your calendar right now. September the 25th Mississippi College Living Reconciled Celebration 2025. We'll be on a college campus where we can interact with more people like Jermaine and college students, like the wonderful and beautiful students at Jackson State University, mississippi College and any other college across the state, and we want you to be there to celebrate the oneness that we have in Christ Jesus together.
Speaker 2:I got a challenge for Jermaine that he'll bring some of those students to that event.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 4:Amen.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen, amen. It's been a great podcast. Thank you so much, jermaine, and thanks to my brothers, austin and Nettie. On behalf of those two brothers and myself, we're signing off saying God bless.
Speaker 2:God bless, god bless.
Speaker 1:God bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
