Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 73: Elizabeth Perkins on Faith and Justice
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Elizabeth Perkins, daughter of civil rights legend Dr. John Perkins and co-president of the Perkins Foundation, shares what it was like growing up in the heart of the movement. From family dinners with Fannie Lou Hamer to navigating her own journey of faith and justice, Elizabeth reflects on the legacy her parents built—and the work still ahead. She challenges us to move beyond diversity toward true reconciliation: deep, cross-racial relationships grounded in love and truth. Through stories from the Perkins Justice Pilgrimage and her own experiences, Elizabeth reminds us that healing often begins with pain—and that faith, community, and courage are essential to lasting change.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters.
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled. I'm your host, Brian Crawford, with one of my friends and hopefully the other friend will be able to join shortly Austin Hoyle, but Nettie Winters, he's here with me, so that still makes me feel good. Nettie, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm great man. I'm excited, I see Elizabeth and I can't wait.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. We are incredibly excited to have our guest this morning with us, ms Elizabeth Perkins. But before we get to our interview with Elizabeth, we do want to give a quick shout out to our friends and sponsors, folks like Mississippi College, anderson, united Methodist Church, grace Temple Church, mississippi State, real Christian Foundation, nissan, st Dominic Hospital, atmos Energy, regents Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, ms Doris Powell, robert Ward and Winters. Thank you guys so much for everything that you do. Because of you we are able to do the things that we do, and today what we are doing is we are talking to the great Elizabeth Perkins. Elizabeth, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3:I don't know about all that great stuff, but thank you, I'm excited to be here and talk with y'all.
Speaker 1:We are excited to have you. Elizabeth Perkins is the co-president of John and Vera Mae Perkins Foundation. She has an incredible, incredible calling and incredible story over her life. She loves Jesus, she loves reconciliation, discipleship and justice. Has 25 years of ministry experience, pouring into the lives of both men and women mentoring, coaching, discipling, you name it.
Speaker 1:Elizabeth has done it. She has spoken, of course, across our state, but it has also spoken across our country, and so we get a chance to hear a ton, a ton from Elizabeth today that we are really, really, really excited about. So, elizabeth, again, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled. I want to jump right in and ask you a question that I'm sure you get a lot, because you grew up in the shadow of one of the most significant civil rights voices, not simply in our state, but one of the most significant civil rights voices in our country, and so, out of the gate, what is it like being raised by Dr John Perkins, and how did that life following behind him or watching and observing how did that life shape your understanding of Jesus's call for reconciliation?
Speaker 3:First I want to say thank you for having me, and one of the things that shade does is protect. Shade covers us, shade protects us. So, growing up in that shadow, there was protection. In that shadow, there was protection. There also was, you know, a lot of things going on in my family, because it was, you know, we grew up during a time where this, during the civil rights era my parents were needy in the movement, and so there were. You know, everybody knows the story about my dad being beat up and all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But prior to that, one of the things, one of the greatest things as an adult, I think about now is the people who came through our home. I look back and I start thinking about Fannie. Lou Hamer came through my house. You know, charles Evers protected our house. The deacons of defense, you know they sat out on our porch. And so now, as an adult, when I look back, benny Thompson was one of the students marching, you know. And so when I, as an adult, now that I look back, I see everything a bit different. But the facts are still the facts. But my appreciation of being a part of this legacy is grown and greater now.
Speaker 1:When you, when I mean that that that is compelling, just to just to hear that when you, when you said it, fannie Lou Hamer came to my house Right. Benny Thompson was at my house. Megha Evers was at my house.
Speaker 3:Charles Evers, not Megha Evers.
Speaker 1:Charles Evers, thank you, thank you, charles Evers was at my house protecting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, megha, evers and Kiel.
Speaker 1:Right protecting my house. Thank you for that correction. But when you say that obviously as a child, that can't land on you like it does as an adult, I mean, how do you recap that experience, thinking about it now versus thinking about it when you were a kid and you had all of these iconic civil rights men and women coming through your home and interacting with your family?
Speaker 3:Well, I knew, as a child, I knew something important was going on, and and I hung around with my mom all the time and my mother had this disposition of worry, and so I knew something was going on. And then we would get phone calls, you know, and my mother would answer the phone and there would be things on, you know, people on the other end saying is that Ian dead? Yet you know, and so, and then she would get off and I would see her face. And so, you know, having these people come through as an, as a child, as a child, I knew something was going on, but as an adult, now that I know what was going on, my appreciation is just like you know, man, thank you God for putting me in this, in this family, cause sometimes, you know, as a teenager, I don't want to be in this family. But now I understand and you know, and, as a teenager, one of the things that you know you have, you're trying to find out who you are.
Speaker 3:And I also wanted time with my dad, and, because God had this call on his life, he was very busy and so there were times where I had to pull him away, and I remember this one pic photo of me. We're standing out in Mendenhall in front of the yard and I'm just leaning up against him while he's talking to another man. That's the attention that I wanted from him, but yet he's hugging me. So I'm getting that attention in his special way, but knowing he couldn't stop. But I didn't know he couldn't stop.
Speaker 1:Right, that's a good segue to another question that I have really for you, elizabeth, and I mean you've already kind of given us a peek and a glimpse into your family's story and your family's background. But obviously, you know, there's the public persona, but then there's the then, then there's the family persona that speaks to the movement, that speaks to the passion that your father and your mother had as it relates to reconciliation. So you know, obviously it's not just born in a vacuum. There are things that are happening in your own personal story that keeps the fire burning, so to speak. So could you speak to some of those moments where it was? It was a little, the light was dim, but the family had to huddle up and kind of find that energy and find that strength from God to keep going, so to speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, during the 60s my older siblings integrated the white school in Mendenhall and so that was a tough time where my brothers were like little soldiers who wanted to do it because daddy said, you know, this is something that needs to be done, whereas my older sister, johnny, was like she knew more, so she knew the danger and she knew what it was going to be like going to those schools and and. But you know, we came to the huddle and the huddle said let's go, you know let's. And we, we got together and they went. I was too young to go to school and they survived. And as they look back on it now they said you know, they're happy they did it. It was a tough. It was tough, you know.
Speaker 3:Just think about right now putting your child in a school to integrate the school. Now fast forward. In eighth grade I went away to boarding school because my parents were traveling, and not because I was that kind of kid, but because I was traveling because they were traveling. And that school I was the only black at that school. The first year it was two of us. The second and third year it was just me, and the fourth year a boy came. And so, looking back on what my siblings had to do, I then was like, ok, I got to be brave and go to this school that has all these, you know, only has white people, has all these, you know, only has white people, and so being in the family like this it teaches you, okay, what you have to do and you're going to survive.
Speaker 2:And in the end.
Speaker 3:it was fun for me, but anyway, yeah, I think that you know, when my brother, my father, was tortured in the Brandon jail, that kind of shaped all of us, you know, because it was a traumatic event in our lives. You know, thinking that you know your father may die, but in the end you know he survived and he forgave those people. You know he survived and he forgave those people. And so, watching that now think about me, watching that, what I, what I had to do once I, once I, um, chose Jesus for myself and understanding what forgiveness is.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:I had, I've had these examples in front of me of justice, of reconciliation, of moving past hate.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so it's been a journey. It's been a journey and my mother. She quietly shaped lives through her Good News Club. She worked in the office, she did all the office work and hospitality. Yes, yes, she would bring people into her house and, you know, shape them and shape, and then she shaped us too. But one of the things that I want to say about that is when I think about the luncheons one of my things if y'all ever see me at the luncheon, you always see me running around.
Speaker 1:And this is for the listeners on that might not be familiar. These are monthly lunches that are hosted at the Perkins House there in Jackson and so very much a very hospitable experience. Table set up for people to kind of have dialogue and conversation, typically a guest speaker, but a very hospitable moment. So yeah, elizabeth, just want to set the context up for those that are listening.
Speaker 3:And that's where that comes from Anybody who dots your door. You need to be hospitable, you need to be loving, you need to be kind and offer them some good food If you know, we always have good food at these places. You know, I just can't help it. You know, um, but that's what she poured into me. And she was, uh, the strength behind the scenes you know we talk about.
Speaker 3:My dad had this undeniable strength when he got beat up and after he got out, she, daddy, went to her and said, you know, cause it was another March on the horizon got beat up. And after he got out, daddy went to her and said, you know, because it was another march on the horizon, but he was too weak to lead it. And he went to her and said you have to lead the march today. And just imagine a woman back then leading the march and of course, she had some protection around her, but she had to step up, and so she was this strength behind the scenes that we don't really talk a lot about. And I always want to talk about my siblings too. You know they are my heroes and sheroes. Integrating the school wasn't easy and it had some lasting effects on them. You know that they've had to work through, and so I don't ever want to forget about. This was a family affair. This journey of reconciliation and justice has been a family affair.
Speaker 2:Talk about your ministry now how that transition and that contrast what you just gave us, how that transition into the ministry you have now.
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I never thought, being the eighth child, that I would ever be leading the Perkins ministry. There were so many people ahead of me to do it and so, but I know God has called me at this time and this moment to co-lead with my sister, priscilla. My sister, it was three of us. My sister Deborah, retired in February, and so now it's Priscilla and I co-leading, and you know, we want to equip and develop leaders who will live out the, you know, the lifestyle of reconciliation, the lifestyle of justice, not just talk about it, you know, and so that's what our vision and our mission is for the foundation, you know.
Speaker 1:Elizabeth, what does reconciliation look like for you right now, in this moment? I mean, obviously, when we talk about Doc and Mama Vera, reconciliation looked like something totally different than what it does today. And let me back up and just say shout out to Mama Vera again, because every good civil rights movement had incredibly strong, strong, strong women, either in the forefront or behind the scenes, like you said, just the power of hospitality and how that was so, how that nourished and refreshed and energized and encouraged and charged up those that were running back to the front lines, the vocal speakers and all that kind of stuff. And so shout out to just the incredible, incredible women, whether they were on the front lines, whether they were behind the scenes, whether they were, you know, wherever they were, that movement was made possible by God's grace at work through them. But yeah, as you think about reconciliation in this season versus reconciliation in the seasons that preceded us, what does it look like to you today?
Speaker 3:A lot of the same. You know, it's about restoring broken relationships, and we see in our country how our relationships are broken, and it's not just about unity, it's about truth and healing and the work of working hard together in love. So reconciliation is not optional, it's a biblical mandate. See, sometimes we act as if it's optional and not understanding that this is that the Bible tells us. You know, this is what we are supposed to do, and so we have it as a side issue and not the main issue, and so um and so. But your to answer to your question is you know, a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't changed sure sure, so it looks the same, you know yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm sitting on that.
Speaker 1:A lot has changed, but a lot, a lot remains the same.
Speaker 3:And you know Second Corinthians 518, y'all know that, I know that scripture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:God reconciled us to himself through himself, and, and Christ gave us the ministry of reconciliation through himself, and, uh, and Christ gave us the ministry of reconciliation and so, uh, when we talk about it being a biblical mandate, it says it right there in the Bible is written in, you know, in my, my father, you know, I said forgave those and chose love. You know, but that was back then. Right, we always act as if um stuff is so far back, you know, and I, and I even said it like it was so far back. But this is, this is my generation, you know, this is um and um, and so those choices, uh, shape my understanding of reconciliation, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, arthur William Faulkner, of course, had that famous quote the past is never dead, is not even the past. So you think about sometimes. You know, one of the things I say often is that we're living in stories, whether we're experiencing stories, whether we know them or not, whether we're experiencing stories whether we know them or not, and so and so we're. You know, the past is shaping and informing how we're living right now. It's not that it's not that far back, it's not that distant, and in fact, not only is it not distant, but it's shaping how we interact, how we live. The stories of our neighborhoods, all of that is right there in our, in our very, very, very near rearview mirror, so to speak.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how does the church play into that? You know, you mentioned that a lot has changed, but a lot is still the same. What would you say about the role of the church in that statement? A lot has changed, but a lot is still the same. What would you say about the role of the church in that statement? A lot has changed, but a lot is still the same. What are some things in which you look into the church and you see change, but then you look into the church and you still yearn for more change to happen.
Speaker 3:Well, some of our segregated hours are still the same, but then you have some integrated churches, so that's the same and some things have changed. Then you have pastors who are willing to explore and talk about reconciliation and justice over the pulpit, and then you have some who shy away from it. You know so, at least. This is a slow process, this is a journey. This is not a sprint, you know. So. I think, little by little, that these things are going to take place, and that's one of the reasons why we do our pilgrimages, our Perkins Justice pilgrimages.
Speaker 1:Talk to us about those pilgrimages.
Speaker 3:Well, we have what we call Perkins Justice Pilgrimages, where we take people on journeys and immerse them into the civil rights movement and and have a and justice issues and have a chance for them to be able to ask questions in a safe space. Also, I have great dialogue about reconciliation and justice, because what justice looks like to some people that look like to other people. Reconciliation looks like to some people that look like to others people. Reconciliation looks like to some people that look like the others.
Speaker 3:But what we do is we come at it from a biblical standpoint, so nobody will have an issue with oh well, reconciliation is not that. Oh, the Bible says reconciliation is this. So we come from that angle and we have created a safe space for people to come and learn and be a part of these journeys. And, you know, I want to invite Mission Mississippi to gather some folks and be a part of this. You all have been faithfully doing the work of reconciliation in this state in such a long time and we at the Perkins Foundation are grateful for that. And because we share this commitment, I feel that this will be a good fit for us to join forces and do a pilgrimage together.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 3:Gather up about 12 to 20 of your folks, whether it's staff board members or long-time partners, even man 12 to 20 people on a bus for extended periods of time with Nettie Winters.
Speaker 2:Man.
Speaker 4:That would be a wild time.
Speaker 2:You see that that woke Austin up. Man, he come off of mute to express.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you woke me up. I was slumbering over here until I realized I think that would be Nettie's dream right there to have a captive audience on a bus for a few days riding around.
Speaker 3:They got to love you, every part of you.
Speaker 1:Can you imagine the stories that would be told Austin?
Speaker 4:There would be stories told and there would be points made, there would be laughter had and there would be a little sleep being done.
Speaker 2:I'm sure Now bear it seriously, yes, it was, yes, it was. No, I'm being very seriously, no, sleeping Really.
Speaker 4:Oh, really, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:With Elizabeth and Nanny Winters and others. I don't know, you don't want to miss it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You might even get me to be a little bit extroverted, who knows yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 4:So, elizabeth, in so many ways and I'm aware of your story, I'm aware of your father's story, your mother's story I've been kind of saturating myself in it over the past probably two to three years or so, and it's been one where you've kind of been really able to walk closely with people and from my note on your end for women and young leaders and helping them to grow, and at the same time you've kind of remained just deeply engaged in this hard work of racial healing and reconciliation. And for some people discipleship is a very quiet personal journey and for others reconciliation is also public justice. But in your work, it seems, and really the work of your father, those threads have been very tightly woven together, right. So how really have you come to understand discipleship is not just personal formation, it is personal formation for a purpose, but it's something that is always kind of pushing outwards, you know, towards justice, toward community, toward healing. I'd really love to hear how your walk with our Lord has been able to manifest itself in the public, in the public realm.
Speaker 3:Well, reconciliation includes housing, education, mentorship, wholeness, wholeness in our neighborhoods. And so you know, we'll say, well, I'm I'm doing a, a housing ministry, well, well, you're doing, you're doing. Some say, well, I'm doing a housing ministry, well, you're doing some work of reconciliation, reconciling people back to their families and getting them in houses and stuff. So, reconciliation we tend to put reconciliation as this thing that I've got to do with. You know we think of it as broken relationships.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And not broken people, not broken neighborhoods, you know. And so those things need to be reconciled. So we have to begin to think of reconciliation on a bigger scale and not just in this box of me dealing with people. And so your question, austin. You said how do I deal with all of this? You know, people say, you know, like you said, how do I deal with this? You know, I think of people like I know I'm not a Harriet Tubman, I'm not trying to say that, but I think of people who, like Harriet and CT Vivian and John Lewis, people who have had to work harder than I have for justice and try to move the needle.
Speaker 3:And so when I come home and I kick off my shoes and just sort of relax and I'm feeling discouraged I'm human I get weary, you know, and sometimes I feel the weight of the stories. You know I can't meet somebody's need of. I can't meet somebody's need. But when that moment comes, one of my favorite scriptures is Isaiah 40 31, and he promises us that. One of my favorite scriptures is Isaiah 40, 31. And he promises us that if we wait on the Lord, he will renew our strength. And so I come home and I sit and I'm waiting on that renewal. And I've seen God renew me my strength again and again, and so that's so. Faith, faith is a big deal for me, you know, because have y'all ever heard of that song? I Don't Feel no Ways Tired.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Right. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And it talks about I've come too far. I don't feel no way, so I've come too far from where I've started from. Nobody told me the road would be easy, but I don't believe you brought me this far to leave me.
Speaker 3:And so that's the way I feel and those are the songs that I have in my heart and I know this is a faith journey. It's a faith journey and I know God is going to carry us, carry me and my sister, carry all of our folks who are working with us, because he knows that we are on a journey that he has put us on.
Speaker 2:Amen, amen, amen.
Speaker 4:That's good.
Speaker 2:You know I'm sorry, Austin, Go ahead.
Speaker 4:No, it was good, I was just getting into it.
Speaker 2:Elizabeth, I get this question and sometimes I'm able to answer it and sometimes I'm not. But people ask me you know, in this work of reconciliation, in this work of justice, in this work of equality, in this work of what we're working for, you know, what do you find the greatest challenge to be when it comes to the church? I thought I let somebody else share and tried to answer that other than me.
Speaker 3:In this culture we think diversity is reconciliation, and reconciliation and diversity are not the same.
Speaker 2:You can say that again and again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, diversity is I'm going to be friends with everybody. Reconciliation is I want a deeper relationship with you friend. Yeah, is I want a deeper relationship with you, friend, I want to. And so when we talk about the church and reconciliation and we see some pulpits and stages that have different people on the stage, a lot of times that's diversity.
Speaker 2:Most of the time it's diversity. Yes, most of the time it's diversity.
Speaker 3:Yes, most of the time it's diversity and not true reconciliation. That's another reason why I have churches that come, church staff people that come and do these pilgrimages is because they get to understand who this black person is. See y get to understand. See y'all understand. We don't have to, Y'all don't have to learn our history, but every day we have to learn y'all history and walk in it. I told one pilgrimage group. I said y'all, I'm just going to be me on this pilgrimage. And they said what do you mean? And I said I am not going to assimilate for y'all on this pilgrimage because I have to make them feel comfortable in the beginning. And so that's what I did. But then I bait and switched on. But no, no, no, I did, but but it was. It was like I wanted them to see and then they had never heard of that. So that ended up being a conversation. You know, more churches need to be studying about reconciliation and they will see I mean from the pulpit and in the staff meetings.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think if it starts in the staff meetings it'll sprinkle over to the congregation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, elizabeth, that's powerful, that diversity is not necessarily reconciliation. And you're absolutely right we can oftentimes fill the space with a variety of colors, but still silence all the stories that are, that are underneath those colors, and so you, and so you can't. You can't have reconciliation until you have depth in relationships, and you can't have depth in relationships until you have the ability and capacity for people to be able to share who they are, you know, and create that culture where, where there is a, a range of of stories and and deepening empathy that comes out of those stories. And so, and so you're, you're, you're, you're absolutely spot on. And and to that point, elizabeth, what happens is that when crisis arises, that impact all of those different people, there's no, there's no anchor there, um, so you have.
Speaker 1:And so when you talk about you know we the quiet exodus that the New York times wrote about in 2018, where, where, um, black and brown faces were starting to slip out of multi-ethnic churches and spaces, a lot of that had to do with, basically, you know, congregating and creating these spaces where you have varieties of color, but you didn't have varieties of story and varieties of experience being shared, and so those, those, those stories and those experiences.
Speaker 1:You know they were like, hey, I still don't feel connected. Even though we got people in here that are of hey, I still don't feel connected. Even though we got people in here that are of different colors, I still don't feel connected. So you end up losing people and so, in order to have depth for the long haul and the kind of resilience that's going to, that's going to allow people to last, even through adversity, you can't just have that, you can't just have diversity, you have to have true connection and reconciliation that's being forged in the midst of that diversity. So thank you so much for that. If you got, if you have one way to encourage our listeners, one challenge that you can give them based on your experience, as we, as we part on this episode, what would you tell them?
Speaker 3:Our country, um, our country is full of pain in regards to race, but pain can be the beginning of healing if we let it. So I think that, uh, I hope, you know, and I have hope, I hope, um, that this next generation that we're rising up a passionate generation, um, about justice and and people who, who deeply love Jesus, you know, you can have, you can, um, you can be passionate about justice and reconciliation and and dismiss Jesus. We want to make sure that we raise enough generation that that's in love with Jesus, you know.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I hope, because churches are slowly awakening to the call of unity and equity. I hope they see the character of God. And the character of God is he made all of us in his image and he made us all. He made a lot of different colors.
Speaker 2:Amen.
Speaker 3:And so, therefore, um, you know, everyone is included and God specializes in redemption, and I think that if we um and see, my journey has taught me that progress is possible. And see, my journey has taught me that progress is possible. I have seen people on these pilgrimages come and say, well, I don't have any extra time in my schedule to make any new friends.
Speaker 3:I mean when I asked, when I challenged them to make some black friends or somebody in their church. You know, don't have time, but I've seen them wake up the next morning and say I'm going to try, see. So if I have to do this one pilgrimage at a time, I'm going to keep doing it. I'm going to keep doing it. I'm going to keep doing it because I know progress is possible.
Speaker 2:Was that?
Speaker 1:your question.
Speaker 3:No, that was it. Yeah know, progress is possible?
Speaker 4:Was that a question? No, that was it. That was it. Yeah, you answered it. That was a good answer, spot on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Elizabeth man, we are so incredibly grateful for your ministry, for your life, for the legacy that you're forging ahead. We are so incredibly grateful for it and so thankful that Mission Mississippi gets a chance to watch and observe and participate, and Nettie's already. I don't know if you're paying attention, but Nettie's already making his list of people that he can invite on our pilgrimage. So he can have all the stories to share on our trip, but no, we're great. Seriously, though, we are incredibly grateful for you, incredibly thankful for the work that you do.
Speaker 3:If you only have a few people. We have a pilgrimage scheduled for July.
Speaker 1:Yes, please share. Please share July. Do you have the details on that one yet?
Speaker 3:Let's see here. I think it's July 13th. It's the second. It's the week after 4th of July, so it might be the 9th. It's Wednesday through Sunday.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:If it's all Mississippi people, we can start on Thursday.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, excellent, excellent, excellent. Well, how can people keep up with you, elizabeth? Where can they go?
Speaker 3:They can visit our website at jvmpforg and check out what we're doing. We're also having a gala October 3rd that you all can attend and a cookout the next day. Because you know we you have functions where everybody comes but you really don't get a chance to talk to people. So we decided to have a gala and then the next day we have on October 4th, we're having a cookout where everybody can just sort of hang out and play games and talk. You know.
Speaker 1:Hospitality.
Speaker 3:Yes, hospitality, you got it.
Speaker 1:You got it. That's it. Absolutely, absolutely, no. Thank you so much, elizabeth, for joining us on this episode, and thanks to all of our listeners, all of our friends and sponsors who make this possible. On behalf of my good friends, nettie Winters, austin Hoyle this is Brian Crawford signing off saying God bless, god bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
