Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled, hosted by Mission Mississippi, is a podcast dedicated to exploring reconciliation and the Gospel that enables us to live it out. Mission Mississippi has been leading the way in racial reconciliation in Mississippi for 31 years. Our model is to bring people together to build relationships across racial lines so they can work together to better their communities. Our mission is to encourage and demonstrate grace in the Body of Christ across racial lines so that communities throughout Mississippi can see practical evidence of the gospel message.
Living Reconciled
EP. 60: Phil Schank and the Journey to Mound Bayou, Mississippi
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What sparks a couple to leave behind their familiar life in Wisconsin and immerse themselves in the heart of Mound Bayou, Mississippi? Take a journey with us as we sit down with Phil Shaik, executive director of C2K Ministries. Phil shares how volunteer trips transformed into a life-altering commitment, and how living authentically can bridge divides and engender true understanding across racial lines.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Mississippi College, Anderson United Methodist Church, Grace Temple Church, Mississippi State University, Real Christian Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled. My name is Brian Crawford, I am your host and I am with some really good friends of mine Letty Winters and Austin Hoyle. Gentlemen, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm great man, you got it right.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm good man, I'm good. I'm just sitting up here at the church doing ministry all day. I get to tune in to y'all to do this podcast. Man, I couldn't be spending my time this morning in a better way.
Speaker 1:Awesome, awesome man and I couldn't be spending my time in a better way either. In fact, it's about to get even better because we got a great guest. But before we introduce that guest, I want to give a quick shout out to some of our sponsors who make this podcast and the work of Mission Mississippi possible. Folks like Mississippi College, anderson United Methodist Church, grace Temple Church, mississippi State University, real Christian Foundation, nissan, st Dominic's Hospital, atmos Energy, regents Foundation, brown Missionary Baptist Church, christian Life Church, ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, ms Anne Winters. Thank you so much for everything that you do. It's because of what you do that we're able to do what we do, and what we are doing today is having a conversation with none other than Mr Phil Shaik. Mr Phil Shaik is the executive director of C2K Ministries and he is also the husband of him. Shaik, they reside in Mound Bayou, mississippi. Shape, they reside in Mound Bayou, mississippi, and God is doing an incredible work in their life and we can't wait to have Phil tell you all about it. Phil, how you doing, brother.
Speaker 4:Good, I'm glad to be with y'all this morning. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, my wife and I reside in Mound Bayou, mississippi, originally from Wisconsin, which is where I am at right now, and, yeah, we moved down there about 12 years ago. We felt a fairly strong call on our life to move to Mount Bayou Mississippi. On her life, um, to move to Mount Bayou Mississippi, and um, kim had been just a little bit of background to that.
Speaker 4:Kim actually started to volunteer in Mount Bayou probably 26, 27 years ago. Um, her brother, uh, was part of the Christian brothers program and he got put in Mount Bayou, mississippi and Kim kind of made a comment to him and said you know, you aren't going to last six months and uh, and he ended up staying an extra year. And so Kim, being, uh, the nosy sister that she is, she decided to head South and figure out what he was doing. So she did that for um, she actually started to volunteer through saint gabriel mercy center and it was back when they had a preschool. So she would bring down um easter baskets, um, you know, do an easter egg hunt and then in the fall she would help out with harvest festival, and so she did that for several years. Then I started to come with her.
Speaker 4:Uh, we started to bring youth groups down for spring break trips and then, probably about 14 years ago or so, my dad had passed unexpectedly. I became the power of attorney for my grandmother my grandmother about a year and a half, almost two years later. Then she had passed and Kim had said why don't we just go to Mumbai? You get away. So that's what we did and we spent two weeks down there and when we were pulling out of town I looked over at her and I said do you feel like we should move here? Looked over at her and I said do you feel like we should move here? And she said you feel that too. And I went well, here we go. So we had some people praying for us down in mississippi. We had people praying for us up in, uh, wisconsin, and everybody came back and was like yeah, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't. So we packed everything up and moved to Mumbai and historical for those that are tuning in historical context is Mumbai is the oldest all African-American community, founded by ex-slaves in 1887.
Speaker 1:And that makes us the only white couple in our small, all, all black community, your lives. That would cause you to pack up and move to a historically predominantly black context. Coming from Wisconsin and what I know of your community, a historically predominantly white context in terms of the neighborhoods and the spaces that you guys frequent and that you guys frequent, um, and that you and that you are around, what, what was moving in your heart and what was stirring in your heart where you you felt compelled by God to make this, make this transition and make this move.
Speaker 4:Yeah, kim and I, so we, we don't have any kids of our own. Um, the joke has always been we've had everybody else's kids and so, um which in a lot of respects is very true when we lived in Wisconsin, we would have kids, you know, live with us for six months at a time, um, because of parent issues, or you know, just anyway.
Speaker 4:So we've always been involved with kids, with kids in some way, shape or form, and even when we were taking groups down to Mumbai, stirring was what could we do? What? How could we get involved in the community to, you know, help, better things? Um, I think one of the things we saw and still see is inequality and trying to level the the playing field when it comes to education, and so when we moved there, we did nothing the first year. We didn't start anything, we didn't do anything. All we did was get involved with the booster club.
Speaker 4:We're at every sporting event selling chips and cheese and candy and this, and that, just so we were, you know, exposing ourselves in the community. Um, and I got, uh, I got involved with coaching, um, so I could be there with, you know, a lot of the young men that I knew and, um, and so I, I I just think there was a prompting to just help kids. I mean, we love kids. We've, you know, we've always been involved with kids in their lives, um, you know, and I think, uh, I think that was probably the, probably the prompting, uh, that we both felt so and, and you know, it wasn't that we were trying to move to a completely different context to. I think the misnomer is oh, you move there to change people or change something, and I'm like that's not the case. The case was we moved into a community. Granted, probably, you know. To most it looks very odd that somebody would do that, but to us it just seemed natural and it seemed normal.
Speaker 2:Um, and it didn't seem. It didn't seem like as big of a deal as it is to a lot of other people. I said so. You know, phil, you know what did it feel like for the people in the community to receive you. How did that work? In them receiving you, did they see you as a savior or something? How did that work?
Speaker 4:Savior? I don't think so. I think a word that I would maybe use is an asset, um, because I could probably say things that others would say and it may not be heard as well as it it would if I said it. Um, or you know, one of the things that we've tried to be is, um, you know, it's not that I don't think people are voiceless. I think that term has been used, uh, before. You know, a voice for the voiceless. I don't think you know people are voiceless. I just think that some people are, um, extremely hard of hearing, and when I like, when I like that part thanks, you know, and I just it's not that stuff isn't being said, it's just that it's not being heard.
Speaker 4:And when it comes from somebody else, sometimes all of a sudden, oh well, I didn't know that or I didn't know this, and it's like, well, pretty sure, the person that's standing next to me just said the same thing and I just regurgitated it and now all of a sudden you hear it. So I would just say I'm, I wouldn't, I, it'd probably be pretty naive to say that when we moved there, everybody was excited. You know, I think there was. There could have been some apprehension like why, you know, I think that would have been a question that a lot of people asked, um, even in our community, uh. But after we were there for a while, um, that all subsided and and we're just like anybody else in our community, just happen to be white I think you're speaking to something really and really important field in terms of the longevity right.
Speaker 1:You mentioned early on that you could imagine and maybe even experience some early curiosity in one sense, I guess, to put it positively, and then suspicion in another sense, to put it negatively. But regardless of whether it was just simply curiosity or suspicion, there was probably early on questions like okay, why are they here and what is it that they want from us? And being here and being here, but longevity allows us to establish a sense of clarity and a sense of comfort and trust where you begin to see, okay, they're here not to take from us, they're here to give back to us without, without some sort of and not in a transactional sort of way. Could you speak to us a little bit about the power of longevity and just being present and just keeping hand to the plow and how that has given you greater, greater influence, how that is cultivated, stronger relationships just by being present.
Speaker 4:Well, tom, I'll share a quick story. So, a friend of mine from Mount Bayou, al Morton, he and I I become friends over the last probably year or two. Uh, we ran into each other at the golf course, a golf course up in Clarksdale, and he happened to be walking out on the course and I, I said to uh, the guy that works at the car, I said who is that? Did you catch his name? He goes yeah, he's from, he's from your town. And I said what's his name? And he said Al Morton. And I said, oh, I'm going to go, I'll go catch up with him. So I go catch up with him and I said, hey, uh, are you related to, uh, orlando? And uh, he's like, oh, that's my brother, you know. And I I went, oh, okay. Like, oh, that's my brother, you know. And I I went, oh, okay, cool, I, you know, I'm phil. And he goes wait a minute, he goes. You're, he goes, you're the guy who was coaching the little league team. Now, I haven't coached little league in probably four or five years and he goes. I was wondering why is there a white guy out there coaching our kids? And he goes. Do we have that much of a shortage of black baseball coaches. So he made light of it and joked around about it.
Speaker 4:But to your question about longevity, when you keep pouring yourself in, keep pouring yourself in, keep pouring yourself in the baseball field butts up to the horseshoe it's kind of a horseshoe driveway, big horseshoe driveway, and everybody calls it the projects, and so our outfield is literally the backyard of some of these uh apartments. A lot of our kids played for me. That played for me came out of the projects because I'm working with the kids and they're there and parents are seeing it, moms are seeing it and so on. Um, it automatically starts to, I think, lend credibility, specifically when you, you just don't do it one year, you do it two years, you do it three years, you do it for you know you're taking the kids, um, you know uh, to Rosedale. And then you know, I told our boys one time I said, listen, because we're pretty good. And uh, I told him I said we make quick light of this game, I'll take you to lost pizza. Well, we got to the bottom of the second inning. It's 33 to two and the kids are looking at me going when are you going to call the game? And I finally walked over the coach. I said we got to go, we going for pizza, we going for pizza. I said, yes, we're going for pizza, I'll take you out for pizza. So it's things like that.
Speaker 4:You know, in our, in our, our afterschool program, starting in Mount Bayou, it started literally with seven students and they were the students a lot of them were the students that when we would come down with our groups from Wisconsin we would do youth group at this church, at Walk of Faith. And then, when we moved here, we took over the youth group and so Kim and I became the youth group leaders at that church. And so those kids, when we started the afterschool program, then many of them started coming to our afterschool program in, you know, in Mumbai, and that would have been the second year that we were there. So we moved to Mumbai.
Speaker 4:Um, the idea was not oh well, this is some sort of quick fix, something. It was. Now we're going to be here, you know 15, 20, you know some odd years, who knows and um, and so settle in, you know, get used, used to it, not only from our perspective but from others' perspective, and I think that just lends a lot of credibility. I think the other thing too, that we made up our mind early on and we saw this with a couple of programs in Lafayette, louisiana. You need to live, in my opinion, in this context, you need to live where you're doing ministry.
Speaker 4:That's a John Perkins R man relocation saw there was one family and it was a white family that lived on one side of town and then they would drive to this other side of town and to do an after-school program with predominantly all black kids. But they didn't want to move to that side of town, they wanted to live on this side of town. And I told Kim early on. I said you know, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1:Share with our listening audience the benefit of investing your entire life in a community, in a sense, where you would move into the community and not just work there but live and work and play in that same community. What, what benefits have you seen through the years as a result of doing that?
Speaker 4:Just a large amount of credibility. People I think a lot of people in our community. You know, for instance, our uh mayor is a good friend of ours. He's a neighbor. He's lives pretty much across the street from us. Um, he has been on me for now two years to run for alderman now remind us again how long you've been in my 12 years.
Speaker 4:Okay, and you know, I said to him, I said you kind of understand what you're asking, right? Something like that could be extremely historic if I was to get elected for alderman um you know or not, a joke on you it would be a tad bit historic.
Speaker 4:But anyway, um, and he kind of looks at me and he goes, yeah, he goes. But so what he's like? Do you live in the community? Are you part of the community? Have you been here a long time, you know? Do you breathe into the life of kids? Do you breathe into the life of our community, all of that? He's like I, he goes, I don't, he goes.
Speaker 4:I see it differently than you do and I went. Well, that's interesting. But I also think that's the credibility piece. When you park yourself in a community, you're basically saying I'm not, I'm not better than, I'm not worse than, I'm equal to and I'm equal with. And I think when you, you know and I'm not saying it's a bad thing to drive from you know we could go into cleveland and then could drive to Mount Bayou, do something and then drive back. I'm not saying there's anything kind of completely wrong with that, but you never really get a chance to become part of the community when you're doing things like that, things like that. And I think, personally, it looks more like I'm trying to just come in and change something and then I leave and I go back to my own context versus how do you integrate into that context. Which means in a lot of cases, you have to change. You have to change, not the community has to change to you. You have to change to the community and to that new context.
Speaker 2:You know, phil, I think the mayor's different look at it from that perspective is exactly what you just said, is that they're looking at it based on what you just said and not so much as being historic. You know, let's and I know I'm going to get in trouble here with our host, my co-host but let's look at it from this perspective. When a black person moves into an all-white community and become part of the, as all the things you talked about, it's a celebration of a lot of things. When that historic moment happened that they get selected to the I'm trying they even celebrate the fact that they get elected to the Neighborhood Association not Altamont, you know, just the local community neighborhood association or they get on the parents' teachers association thing, or become a band booster club member or provide leadership to those and those I'm not making fun I thought those are really more important from my perspective, more important than being as a direct hit on the kids, and that's what you're after. But at the same time, you know, we move into those circumstances and that become a celebrated thing both for the neighborhood and for the families and other things in there. So you might want to rethink how you look at that in terms of that.
Speaker 2:I know that you come from the background of, of, of. You know all white context and as a lot of that stuff about being the hero and you know, uh, things that would go right now we've got a white guy in there, that kind of stuff. I know that I've heard all of those comments, but you know you are adding a contribution. I think you said up front you were not there to save or to do you. You come in to make a contribution or using your skills and talent to do that.
Speaker 4:No, I think there's. There's something to you know obviously be said about that, and I've I've thought about it, you know I'm still thinking about it.
Speaker 1:We'll see Awesome. I appreciate, feel even you, your We'll see stay out of the context and don't bring anything. And I love the fact that you're saying no, no, no. Even though there may be a greater involvement, a deeper involvement, a deeper credibility that can be earned, it doesn't mean that those that are not willing or those that, for whatever reason, cannot move into the context, should completely divest themselves from the opportunity to be involved in this community, and so those that are angry won't be criticized for not doing that. Absolutely. There's an opportunity for you still to provide an incredible amount of good, even if you're on the outskirts, and at the same time, there's a deeper level of involvement and a deeper level of credibility that can be established as well, and I really appreciate that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because the success of the ministry, even if your success of building relationships with people, doesn't necessarily require you to move to new homes, there's people who have been living in a place for 30 years in their lives and even if God places something on their hearts of people to engage, that they're not being necessarily called to move homes, and I think that's a good point. And I guess the question I have is you know what are some of the things that you see around your community that that you feel, if you were able to kind of gather the, the full council of the significant leaders in Mount Bayou, that you guys can kind of come together and and make some, make some good roadway and helping to solve some of the problems roadway and helping to solve some of the problems.
Speaker 4:I think there's a good bit of that that is happening right now. I also think there's still a good bit of the silo mentality in our community If my name's not going to be on it, if I'm not going to get the recognition, I'm not doing it. But I don't think that's any different from a lot of other communities. But no, I think that you know our mayor's doing a good job, but the mayor can only do so much because he is strapped by, you know, alderman decisions, that kind of a thing. That kind of a thing, um, for me, I mean my, you know, my thing is more education based, um, and not necessarily, um, alderman driven. That's that's why I've had a uh, just a has a hesitancy. Um, you know, school board might be a better setting. You know, that would be something that I could get. I could not that I wouldn't get fired up about being an alderman, but I'd, I'd get probably a little bit more fired up being on the school board. That might be something that I look more into than than becoming a trying to become an alderman, just because of our context, um, our, um, you know, our context is primarily kids. That's who we're dealing with, that's who we're working with, and if we can change policy, you know we can change something for the positive. It'd be a good thing.
Speaker 4:Um, specific to education. So we just see, we see there's just so much inequality that we see in, specifically, our school district and really the surrounding areas as well. It's just that, you know, kim and I, when we went to school here in wisconsin, um, the high school that we went to was a ranked top five high schools in the state. I mean we had everything we needed. Teaching was great, blah, blah, blah, all of it. And then we just see really stark difference to what we grew up with versus what our students have. So I mean, one of the things that we've tried to do with Redirect is provide the tools and resources that are necessary for our kids to become successful future leaders, and that means both educationally, that also means socially, that also means spiritually, that we're providing resources in different aspects to really cultivate the whole individual, versus just we're going to work on your brain here. Let me teach you what two plus two is.
Speaker 4:Well, we want to take it beyond that and I think we've done a pretty good job of that. Going from seven kids our first year to doubling it 15. And then, by the third year, I think, we doubled it again to about 30. And now we're not even in Mumbai. We're still living there, but the program isn't there. It's actually in Cleveland now, and so we bus with our vans, we take our Mumbai kids and we take them, and you know, we put them down into Cleveland and we go pick up the Cleveland kids and bring them, you know. So we're serving all of Bolivar County except for two grade schools, and that's just because of distance issues. So we've got one student from every grade school in Bolivar County.
Speaker 1:Hey, phil man you mentioned this earlier and I want to see if we can peel the layers back a little bit on it. But you mentioned part of your passion and your burden is to see these inequities, so to speak, in terms of access, in terms of resourcing for the children of your community. I would love, if you don't mind, to take a little bit of time and just again peel the layers back on what do you see as being some of those chief and primary ways in which there is a lack of access for some, or an imbalance in access for some children in the community versus other children in the community, or there's an imbalance in opportunities for some children in the community versus other children in the community. And how are you and Kim and C2J involved in right-sizing or bringing some balance, by God's grace, to some of those inequities?
Speaker 2:You know. Before you ask that, phil, let me just add this Bolivar County is one of the largest geographic locations, lengthwise and otherwise in Mississippi, so to talk about they served the entire county of Bolivar County is a great feat within itself, right? I just want the audience to realize that you know when I worked for USDA, bolivar and Sunflower counties are the two largest counties in Mississippi and they cover a lot of ground, or a lot of schools and a lot of children.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's, you know, like Rosedale, rosedale to get to Cleveland is about 24 miles or so. There's just no way we can get to Rosedale, get the kids when we're getting all the other kids. And then same thing with Duncan. You know Duncan's all the way at the top of Bolivar County and so there's just that would be a 30 minute, you know, drive one way. So there's just no way we can we can get those kids.
Speaker 4:I think one of the one of the probably primary reasons it exists certainly in our community, because of poverty. Our mission is to develop programs to help kids fight intergenerational poverty. Cycle after cycle after cycle after cycle, mom has a daughter, daughter grows up, daughter becomes like mom does the same thing. Mom does has a daughter. Daughter grows up, looks at mom, grandma does the same thing, and it's this perpetual, um, perpetual cycle that takes place. Um, and what we want to do is we want to present.
Speaker 4:I don't know if it's an alternate reality, but I think one of the things that Kim and I have done a fairly good job of is just modeling. What does it look like to be married? What does it look like to be married for coming up on 28 years? Now, I've had kids say to me. I had a kid say to me this was years ago, he's an older kid. I call him a kid because he's would have been half my age, but anyway, um, he said so you've been married to kim this whole time. You've been married to Kim this whole time, yep, so no girlfriends on the side or anything, no, no, just one wife. Try to love her. Well, and that was a foreign concept. Yeah, but you know, he didn't grow up with a father, so he had examples of what it meant to be a guy. However, those examples were obviously misguided and misdirected, which caused some sort of confusion, you know, because then he, he believes well, this is, this is what a guy looks like, this is how it goes.
Speaker 4:So, um, as far as you know, inequities it, when you're dealing with poverty and you're dealing in impoverished situations with you know which a lot of the students that we are working with um are coming from that context. It adds a whole different dimension, um, to inequality, you know, let me say it this way. So, covid, I'll say, I'll give you an example, covid. Covid hit right and we're going to go virtual. Okay, so we're going to do virtual school and all our kids are going to get laptop computers right, our laptop computers. We started school in August.
Speaker 4:Those laptop computers didn't show up until like January. Now I know there were other schools that had laptop computers and they came a whole lot quicker Like they they. They had them in August. You know Now why did it take us till January to get laptop computers? I mean it shouldn't have taken that long. So kids are getting like packets you know of of you know thick packet of paper, which then you think about all the printing costs, toner costs. You get what I'm saying, like I don't why, why didn't? Why did it take so long when other schools you know had their computers right away on On the flip side of that, other school districts that are maybe a little bit more well-off, they have a computer at home, they have access to internet. You get what I'm saying. So whether they got a computer through the school or not didn't really matter because they could do it from home.
Speaker 1:So you have machines that are coming in later to a group of kids that don't have access at home to be able to do the work, versus machines coming in quicker to a group of kids that have access, whether the machines came in or not. Correct, correct, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Correct, you know. So you wrap your mind around that a little bit, and then, and then we're giving devices, we're giving computers to kids, and a lot of the kids don't have internet access. So now we got to get, you know, little wifi things. For you get what I'm saying. And one of the things that we did during that time is we were finding out, okay, kids don't have Wi-Fi access.
Speaker 4:So I went to Verizon and bought up a bunch of I think we bought eight, nine those those, um, wi-fi things, and you know, we just started giving them to kids and I'm like here, you know, you can use this while this is going on.
Speaker 4:I want it back when you go back to school, but in the meantime, just use it, you know, and so we try to do that with the kids that are we're, we're in our program, um, just to help, you know, help out, because it, I mean, obviously it was a crazy time just in and of itself, but, um, then you just start to stack on these layers of stuff. I mean there's, they're, they're, they're finding out now, um, a lot of our kids are anywhere from one to two years behind in academics, um, because of COVID, in what happened, and so in our context it hurt a whole lot more than it did in a lot of other contexts where the resources were there. Um, you know you don't skip a beat. Well, we skipped probably a lot of beats, and now they're starting to see that, and I know other communities. It was the same thing.
Speaker 1:Talk to us a little bit, gil, about to transition a little bit. Change a little bit of direction here. Bit change a little bit of direction here. We're talking about ways in which you and C2K in many ways have had impact on the community in terms of trying to close the gap as it relates to access and equity and things of that nature. But one of the things I heard you mention I would love for you to kind of speak to a little bit more is that you've changed in this journey, that Kim's changed in this journey. How has your full life investment over the last decade plus in Mount Bayou, with this community, with these children, how has the Lord used that to change you for the better?
Speaker 4:Uh, boy, uh, probably quite a few ways. Um, I, I'm going to take you back to the very first trip and I'll be extremely vulnerable with what I'm going to say. Um, extremely vulnerable with what I'm going to say. Um, the first trip I took with Kim down, um, I remember driving. We got to a community and I can't remember exactly where it was, Um, but it was predominant, and it was before we had gotten to Mumbai. Now, this is before. 61 was a four lane, so 61 was a two lane and it took you through every community possible. So your trip going South increased by probably two hours from where we were once he got into Mississippi, because they wind you through every small town. Now, 61 just goes around all of them, but at any rate, Now 61 just goes around all of them. But, at any rate, I remember going through a town and there were a bunch of African-American people outside hanging out and I remember looking around, going my gosh. I can't, I cannot believe, and this was the thought that went through my mind. I can't believe. I let Kim drive, you know, by herself down here and I had this thought of, um, not even thought, but I think, uh, uh, like fear for some reason, and I don't know why.
Speaker 4:Um, the next day we were, we stayed at, uh, a trailer house with a friend of of Kim's, Katie, and uh, and so we stayed there and I was going to cook out in the front yard. So I'm outside and these guys come around you know the corner and they come right into the yard and I'm like, oh boy, here we go. But all they wanted to do was figure out what I was cooking and hang out and talk for a minute and that was it, and walk by. There was this, over the course of time, this? Why do I feel the way I feel? Why am I reacting the way I'm reacting? Um, where did I learn this? You know where? Where did this? You know where's this coming from? And so there was a lot of unpacking. Um, that happened, and this was this was well, before we even considered moving down there.
Speaker 4:But as we continued to go, as we continued to meet with, spend time with, have lunch with, have dinner with, have people come over to the house where we were staying at, um, all of a sudden, you know, like, man, we're, we're all pretty much the same, you know, is kind of what I came to and uh, not that I should, you know, not that I shouldn't have thought that the first time, but it was. It was just that weird. Why, you know, why am I feeling like this? Like where is this come? How did I learn this? Where is this come, how did I learn this? And so, over the course of time, um, unpacking a lot of that and continuing to unpack, you know, certain, certain tendencies or or whatever. I think that's something that we all go through, but I know I'm not saying comfortable, uh, but I will say not uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And you know it was weird because I said to somebody, I said man, I said we're in this room with all these people and stuff and I was like there is not one black person in this room and it almost makes me feel uncomfortable in that context, because I've become more comfortable in our context.
Speaker 4:Um, yeah, so I mean it's been a lot of, a lot of unpacking and, um, you know, just letting God your question, I think, seeing things from a different perspective. You know it's easy to watch the news, whatever your news outlet is. That's going to tell you everything that you want to hear and then you can side with it and you can believe you're right and everybody else is wrong. That's going to tell you changes your reactions to things that may be portrayed on news and so on and so forth, and so I think there's been a good bit of that, I think having a different outlook towards things that I may not have had had we never done this. You know, I may still be. I may still be Phil living in Wisconsin, whose parents told him never drive down this certain street in Milwaukee, because this is the street, that's the bad street and this is where all the bad stuff happens Right which, by the way, when I turned 16, got my driver's license, it was one of the first streets I drove down because I wanted to see.
Speaker 2:Don't stick your hand in that liquor club man and he shot you. That's right. That's right. One is just like man don't.
Speaker 3:So some mothers out there, don't don't give your children ideas. All right, that's the moral of the story, right? Don't give them ideas that's right, that's right you know, my parents freaked out too.
Speaker 4:They were like, wait, you did what? And I said yeah. I said I don't know. And I said I even stopped at a gas station, went inside, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, that's how people talk about you know where I used to live now, where I have a house set up in Jackson, people used to talk. People talk about Jackson that way sometimes. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know and it's not to say that bad stuff doesn't happen. But you know quite honestly, bad stuff happens out in the suburbs.
Speaker 1:It just gets swept under the rug and nobody ever hears about it because people buy, you know, their high-priced attorneys to take care of that and keep it hush-hush you know when I hear you say, I feel more than anything is that the only way really, uh, to get comfortable with the unfamiliar is to just continue to engage it until it becomes familiar. I mean, you, you know that it's. It's easy to kind of stay on the outside of that which is unfamiliar, whether it be context, whether it be people groups, um, and just continue to kind of hold that suspicion and distrust and fear and let the gaps get filled in with misinformation about that, about that people group, about those neighborhoods and contexts. And the only way that you can actually have that transformed in your life is actually to be in the space and just continue to be around the unfamiliar until it becomes familiar.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I saw something the other day on Facebook, you know, it showed in this little line, and well, two little lines, the difference between what motivation and discipline is, uh. So motivation started off with, like you know, huge humps and the humps got smaller and smaller until they just dissipated. Discipline showed it started off with, like you know, huge humps and the humps got smaller and smaller until they just dissipated. Discipline showed it started out with small little humps, you know, small effort, but it was consistent, it stayed true over time.
Speaker 3:So so what I'm seeing you feel doing is, I'm sure there's probably motivation in what you're doing, obviously, but, like you're, you're, you're really applying discipline to, to your work and in you know, I think, if we were to to look to a quality that we need, uh, when we're looking to reconciliation, when we're looking to inoculate ourselves to, uh, to foreign outside elements, to what we grew up with or what we understand, um, it seems that when we are able to discern particular patterns and uh, that would, that would lead us to that inoculation, um, then we begin to walk a path towards, um, discipline and that that enables us then to eventually, over time, to transform ourselves, transform our hearts, transform our thoughts, to the capacity that we can then um walk that walk of reconciliation with people. So I think, I think, uh that that that dedication to, to discipline for you it's been 12 years of a dedication to discipline which is more or less unheard of, and a lot of uh and a lot of uh, ministerial um vocations and and and and ventures.
Speaker 4:So one of the uh, one of the one of your stories was uh, when we first had moved there, we were at a basketball game. Mr Wallace who was our garbage man for years in town, he was sitting in front of us and we were sitting with some friends and obviously Kim and I were the only white people in the gym something and he knew who we were. But he had. He had said something jokingly and one of our friends goes wallace, you need to get over it. You know they're living in town, white people, and there's probably going to be more white people living in town. So you, just, you better get over it. You know something like that. He turns around. Well, it gets funnier. He turns around and he grabs my hand and he takes his arm and he goes like this, and he he looked at who's who said something to him and he goes, he ain't white anymore. So and there was quite, quite funny I was like all right, well, I guess I'm in.
Speaker 1:So there we go literally as as as, as the young folks would say, you're invited to all the barbecues.
Speaker 2:Now, phil, there you are, barbecue even if you're out, even if you are the host of the barbecue.
Speaker 4:It's time well, time times. That happens from time to time.
Speaker 1:Hey, let's wrap this up, phil, with a quick question. If someone's on the sidelines here and they're listening to this podcast and saying to themselves man, I would love to take a step in this direction and be more intentional, engaging in spaces that right now feel very unfamiliar to me, in order that I might be the hands and feet of Jesus and be the light of Christ and shine light in dark spaces and engage and not just simply come in, like to our earlier point, not just simply come in with a savior mentality, but to come in wanting to be one of many that's plugged in, serving the community, connecting in ways that I have yet to do. So what would be a first step that you would encourage them to take?
Speaker 4:Well, I think one you got to pray and I would also have some people that know you well, pray as well. And for us it was know you well, pray as well. And you know, for us it was. We had some folks down, like I said, in Mount Bayou, up in Wisconsin, pray for us to help us discern what we should do, and I think that was extremely, extremely helpful. The second thing that I would say, especially in our like for me, I think I have all the answers, and when you said, save your mentality, it can very much so come off like that. If you're not careful, like you know, for instance, I'll give you a. For instance, um, we took a couple of trips to in the background. Here you see these jerseys hanging up. Those are two of I don't know how many jerseys he's got down here and stuff, but Doug Henry played Major League Baseball and then he became a coach and he was coaching for the Royals. At the time it was right around 2013, 14, somewhere in there. They won the world series, but anyway, he said, if you can ever get kids to Kansas city, we'll take care of everything, and there's a point to this story. So through our afterschool program, we let kids earn a trip to Kansas city, so we rent a vehicle, drive nine hours, we go up there. We would stay two nights. Well, devin goes to use the bathroom and he's going to take shower and get ready. So it gets done. I go into the bathroom and the toilet has like literally no more toilet paper and there's all this toilet paper in the toilet, has like literally no more toilet paper and there's all this toilet paper in the toilet and then the actual shower is stopped up so it's got water standing in it. I said what is going on? You know what's happening going on, you know what's happening. And he said well, you know, at our house we got to put like a bunch of toilet paper in there to get it to flush down. So I just I thought that was. I said okay. I said what is the deal with the, the? You know the tub and he goes. Well, at my house, you know, the water always backs up and the water wasn't backing up. So I just I stuck like a, stuck like a hand towel on top of the drain to like clog it up to him that's normal to me, that's not normal to you. It may be abnormal to him. It's very normal, you know, and we're talking about on that trip.
Speaker 4:When we first got there, we took the kids to the mall because they had a food court and so we're like, let's get some food. Our kids are staring in a direction and I'm like, what are they staring at? Like, hey, phil, what's that? I said, uh, that's an escalator. What Can we? Can we go on it? I'm like, yeah, you can go on it.
Speaker 4:They had never seen an escalator and so they got on that thing. They were on that thing for 45 minutes. They thought it was a carnival ride up and down and up and down. I'm like, come on, we gotta eat. No, we want to. Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, an escalator. You know, normal to me not, um. And so I think you're in answer to your question what your normal is may not be somebody else's normal and you can't go into that situation and go. I'm right, you're wrong. This is normal. That's abnormal. It may seem like that, but you know you got to approach it the right way.
Speaker 4:I never once said to the kids I can't believe you've never seen an escalator before. In my mind I felt that, but I never verbalized it. I just let them have fun. They probably went home and told their whole family about this thing they did at the mall, with this ride up and down thing and you know that kind of thing. And with Devin I, I just said, well, I said, bud, we don't need to plug anything up, we can just use it as it is and it'll, it'll be okay. Okay, well, I didn't know, cause it wasn't doing you know, and I said, I know it's all right, our normal may not be somebody else's normal, and I could tell you story after story after story, just like that, different things that have happened over the course of time, to where I sit there and I go. How blessed was I in a lot of regards, and how do I take that opportunity to be able to share with others in a loving, christ-filled way, versus an I'm right, you're wrong kind of mentality, and unfortunately I've seen people do that. That's destructive.
Speaker 1:Madfield, this has been incredibly fruitful. You mentioned that you got several hundred stories that you could share. Maybe we need to invite you back so that you can have an opportunity to share some of those stories, because it's been fruitful just to hear all the stories that you've told on this episode and pick your brain and learn from you. For those of you all who are looking to learn more about Phil and his work, you can reach out to Phil at C2K Ministries. That's a quick Google search. You can find all sorts of details about what him and Kim, his beautiful bride, are doing in the great community of Mountain Bayou and all around Bolivar and Simpson County. So please feel free to reach out to them via C2K Ministries Also not just a website, but social media channels. You can search on C2K Ministries and you can find out some of the things that are happening in Phil and Kim's world. For us. You can reach us at MissionMississippiorg world. For us. You can reach us at missionmississippiorg.
Speaker 1:You can also search on Living Reconciled on any podcast app that you may be using and you will find this podcast. So please like, share and subscribe to the Living Reconciled podcast. We got plenty more episodes to come, lord willing. We would love for you to tune in and listen On behalf of my friends Nettie Winters, austin Hoyle and our guest Phil Shank. My name is Brian Crawford, signing off saying God bless, god bless. Thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
