Living Reconciled
Living Reconciled
EP: 56: Elliot Sands - Christian Reconciliation on the West Coast
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Join Neddie and Brian as they interview Elliot Sands, the executive director of Live Faith First, sharing his compelling story of growing up in Livermore, California, and relocating to Nigeria during his high school years. Elliot's narrative sheds light on how these cross-cultural experiences profoundly impacted his faith and understanding of reconciliation. His insightful reflections offer a unique perspective on the importance of embracing diverse communities to live truly reconciled lives.
We also delve into the foundation of Live Faith First, an organization born from the societal tragedy of George Floyd's death, which aims to bring together diverse backgrounds to foster unity. Elliot discusses how the organization collaborates with nonprofits in San Jose to support those facing homelessness and economic instability, emphasizing the significance of addressing systemic issues rather than just offering temporary solutions.
Special thanks to our sponsors:
Nissan, St. Dominic's Hospital, Atmos Energy, Regions Foundation, Brown Missionary Baptist Church, Christian Life Church, Ms. Doris Powell, Mr. Robert Ward, and Ms. Ann Winters
This is Living Reconciled, a podcast dedicated to giving our communities practical evidence of the gospel message by helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured for us by living with grace across racial lines. Hey, thanks so much for joining us on this episode of Living Reconciled, episode 56. I'm your host, brian Crawford, and I am with my great friend, close friend, very close, very close, very close friend, very good friend, nettie Winters. Nettie, I can't wait to get Austin Hoyle, the Reverend Dr Austin Hoyle, back. Hopefully he'll be back next week, but we miss you, austin. We're looking forward to seeing you, but in the meantime, we want to give a quick shout out to some other friends that we have, folks like Nissan and St Dominic's Hospital and Atmos Energy Regions Foundation.
Speaker 1:Brown Missionary Baptist Church. Christian Life Church. Ms Doris Powell, mr Robert Ward, ms Anne Winters, thank you so much for everything that you do. It's because of what you do that we're able to do what we do and today, what we are doing, I would love to get a shout out One of our most favorite listeners.
Speaker 1:Sherry Tides. Shout out to Sherry Tides. Thank you so much for your faithful listening to Living Reconciled, and hopefully you will enjoy this episode because we have a really great guest. Elliot Sands is the executive director for Live Faith First, and he will get a chance to tell you a little bit about that. Elliot, we got a chance to meet him recently because he interviewed us, and so I thought, based on Elliot's ministry and the work that he is doing on the West Coast, I thought it would be a great idea for us to return the favor by interviewing Elliot, and so we asked Elliot to come and join us on episode 56 of Living Reconciled. Brother, how are you doing today?
Speaker 3:I'm doing great. I'm doing great A few hours behind y'all here in San Jose, california. Why don't you start our time off by just telling our listeners a little bit about Elliott Sands, so, born in California, born and raised. It's unusual in California to have native Californians In fact, I don't know third generation. I think my great, my grandfather, was born here, so this is home. This is. This is where I set up camp In high school, actually eighth grade, ninth grade, and then, starting in 10th grade, my family moved to Nigeria.
Speaker 3:So my dad, I grew up, my dad was a dentist and Lord got ahold of his life and he decided to sell his dental practice, be a dentist in Joss, nigeria, and so I spent high school there, my last few years of high school there and I bring that up because it has such a formative effect All of a sudden you went from the neighborhood I grew up in. Livermore. California at the time was very, very white. Nothing you can do about where you're born in the neighborhood you're in, right, that was, that's what it was. And uh, now I was going to a high school where we had 30 different nationalities. I'll live in nigeria.
Speaker 3:Half of it was, you know, more or less nigerians, um, and so just got to see so much more of the world, not only nigeria, but also just to my friends and so on, and so just a great time. And you don't. It's another one of those things you don't realize when you're in the middle of it. It's when you're looking back at a decade later, two decades later, and you're like, oh, my goodness, this is, this is amazing. So anyway, fast forward. I went to Westmont College. Yeah, you went through that.
Speaker 2:Hold on, you went through that too fast. I want to understand and appreciate going from an all-white community to the other extreme of the world, not only in a different part of like the detergent commercial not just white, but really white, Really white. Yeah, really white. And it's not like going down the street across the states or or to another state man. You went to all different nation, country and and there you are, as as as Jared Clower would say, flung right into the midst of this multicultural, multiracial society.
Speaker 3:So I worked for you, so I loved it. It was a great experience for me. Now, definitely different. So like when we would walk down the street in Nigeria, go to the market, you know, whatever you would always get what I'll call catcalls, but they were called bature. Bature is white man, or it's actually means peeled one like an orange, like you peel the orange, and it's white on the inside. So I would yield one and uh, and you just got used to it, like that was just what. You know, you're, you're. I was the only white face walking down the street, and so it didn't surprise me, did you get called out? Um, but what was interesting is, after I'd been there for two or three years, I stopped hearing it. So either they stopped saying it or I just ignored it, like it just never, never actually went into my eardrums anymore.
Speaker 2:You got a tan man.
Speaker 3:And the other thing too is I'm six foot two and so there's no hiding. Wow, there's no hiding. There's no like. You're just you're going to stand out, like that's all there is to it. But what always is interesting to me is everybody was so kind, so friendly, so loving, so accepting. So there was never this like oh Bature, now I'm going to. You know, I guess I did hear another Nigerian word is bulala, which means beating. And so there were occasions where I heard you know, you're going to get a bulala, and like I, I would just start running Like I don't need, I don't know what, I don't know why or what I'm doing, but I gots to go now. So I also learned, you know, just uh, there 1986.
Speaker 3:And we went and we had a meal in a church member's home, and those were the first times where I really liked the food, the smells, but also just that realization that the world is so different from what I was used to in Livermore, california, right when people are cooking over wood, you know, there's no stoves the dad eats first, the youngest child was whatever's left over, like, literally, the food would go down from dad to the oldest son and to the mom and then the younger kids, and so you start to see that, like there's, the oldest son came before mom, yeah, yeah, wow, wow. So, uh, and that just that's the way it went. So if there wasn't enough food, like the youngest just wouldn't eat that day, right, or they wouldn't eat until later. And, uh, I, people would be kind as far as like they try to save some for everybody, but you know, uh, that didn't always work that way. And uh, remember just sitting and being uncomfortable because it's hot. You know I'm sitting on the floor, you know the, the food and smells are not my favorite. Now, I would, would like just love to have food there because, you know, I, you learn to love the cuisine, but, uh, but it's in the midst of that being uncomfortable that you get to be transformed, that you get to, like you know, fall in love and find out new things, and so I think that's a big piece of what we all are doing.
Speaker 3:Is you got to go through this kind of uncomfortable place? Yeah, and then, on the other side of that uncomfortable place, there tends to be actually a comfort, so that, if you ask me, ellie, would you like to go back to miyango, nigeria, and sit in. You know this family's home. Sit in sunday's home, would you do? Yes, please put me on a flight right now, like I would absolutely love to do that, but it's because kind of went through that uncomfortable season of like this is new, this smells different. Why am I sitting on the floor Right? Why am I eating with my hands? You know all those types of things, and so, anyway, that's a little bit about that experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, elliot, I say often that the current of relationships flows all the time, flows towards the familiar. And so in order to actually embark upon relationships that are different, that are unique, that are not based on what we know and talk like us, think like us, act like us, vote like us, that's going to always require effort because you're going to have to swim against the current. You're going to have to swim upstream. The relationship currents always flow downstream and they're easier and they're more comfortable, and when you walk in a room, you're looking for the downstream, you're looking for those that are familiar, look like you, think like you, act like you. Familiar, look like you, think like you, act like you.
Speaker 1:And so there's always discomfort in relationships that are introducing new cultures and new beliefs and new ideas and new backgrounds and experiences, and so that's a phenomenal experience that you just share with us, and it sounds like that experience shaped you a little bit in terms of what you're doing today. So talk to us a little bit about let's fast forward and you're back in the States, you're moving back into the States and pick up there and tell us a little bit about your journey and how the Lord used that to shape what you're doing today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So I'll start with college and then we'll, we'll, we'll, fast forward way beyond that. But it was interesting. Coming back from Nigeria, my freshman and sophomore year in college were actually one of the more challenging year seasons in my life Um, not the most, but it was a significant season because, uh, I wasn't like the people around me anymore. I had spent so much time through years informative years living in Nigeria that, though on the outside, you know, I look like I belong, I don't have an accent, I sound like I belong, you know I dress like I belong but I never felt like I belonged and I never had that place not never, never. But it was unusual for me to have that place where I truly felt like I connected, and so it was an interesting season to kind of find myself, to find my people, but also to kind of restore who am I, who do I want to be so kind of fast forwarding from that and I say that because I think it plays into kind of what we're all doing too is that place where we sit. Sometimes we sit in a place where we not only don't feel comfortable, we don't feel like we belong.
Speaker 3:Ended up, I actually I had made a deal with God. I said look, lord, I want to major in Bible, but I want to be a dentist. So you're going to get me into dental school and if not, I'll go to seminary. And never wise to make deals with God. I did not get into dental school. I didn't like I'm was. God must be right. How do you make? How do you? How do you?
Speaker 2:make a deal with god. How do you know that he agreed to the deal?
Speaker 3:right, I don't know. Apparently he did not. Then he did not agree to the news at all, right.
Speaker 2:Is that one of those? I heard God say this because I heard it in my own mind, Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:There was no hearing, there was only telling. I was just thinking, no, I don't think it's going to happen. Oh God, this is what's happening. This is my deal with you. So, anyway, ended up going back to school to get my master's in business, because my religious studies degree was not getting me anywhere. So I got out of tech for a few years and in the midst of that, god just put a discontent in my soul and ended up becoming a pastor in 2004. And then in 2007, I actually went back to seminary or started seminary. So that deal that I made when I was 19,. It took me about, you know, a decade or so, a little more 15 years, but, yeah, I pastored 17 years and then, yeah, started working at Live Faith, first almost two years ago. Now, tell us a little bit about that journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, something that was started by a gentleman named Vintage Foster, and so he's the founder, now just chairman of the board is a successful business person, marketing, and right after George Floyd, he gathered about 100 people at a church to pray.
Speaker 3:He gathered about a hundred people at a church to pray and out of that prayer meeting he's looking around and he's like there's a variety of ethnicities here, there's a variety of religious backgrounds here, there's people that don't even believe in God, but we're all coming together because of this tragedy that's taken place in our society. And at that point he says you know, we, we got to do something like we, we, we, we have to put an organization together because there is a togetherness in us that we want, and unfortunately, we come around, often around tragedy, rather than like kind of making this a normal part of our life, and so, uh, so he actually started the organization in 2020, and then, of course, we're in the middle of COVID and all of that, and so, uh, they brought me on, like I said, in 2022, about two years ago to really help push these um initiatives forward.
Speaker 1:Um, and the. The main goal of live faith first is, is, you know, building unity in God's church. Um, and we do that by building pastor cohorts so they can build relationships, culture, ethnicity, experience. Give me a feel, give us a feel, rather, of what a cohort gathering would look like for Live Faith First pastor cohorts.
Speaker 3:You know, and it interestingly it depends on the region. So I have one about an hour south of here and actually the diversity is among denominations. There's one African American, everybody else is white, but we have a Lutheran, a Presbyterian, a Ko theology denominations, and how do we kind of bring all of that together? Here in San Jose there are more gathering. It actually is ethnically. There's a lot of diversity, as well as the neighborhoods that people sit in, and so for those it's more like okay, how do we, how do we build relationships across some, some of these divides, but also, um, what neighborhoods we want to really dig into, serve in and start making a difference? Um, and so that's the kind of that's the next big stage. Our cohorts are relatively new and so our next big stage really is okay, let's find communities, and so there's a few communities here in San Jose that we're just beginning to dig in.
Speaker 3:For me, serving is not so much how I want it to be, more than just putting a Band-Aid on something, wow, so an example, and there's nothing wrong if this is what your church does. So don't hear what I'm not saying. But we can have like food programs, right, where people come, they pick up food. That is awesome. Like that needs to be done. There's food scarcity and so we need that.
Speaker 3:But there's often root causes behind that in communities that are causing some of those challenges, whether it's an economic issue, whether it's a family issue, whether it's drugs, whether it's gangs, whether you kind of fill in the blank for what it could be. And so what we want to do is we actually want to come into communities, figure out what some of those key pain points are and then bring nonprofits in to help serve those particular needs and so that we're actually addressing the needs in the community, so that what we say, that the poverty is being alleviated. So it's not just, hey, let's get you food for the week. Let's kind of step back behind that and, yes, we may need to do food for the week to get you through, but can we go behind that and find what some of the root causes are so we can start to actually address those?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. It's like a fire in the house burn um fire in the house that you keep running, running to put out, and and and eventually you find, okay, we put the fire out, but there's like incredible electrical damage in the walls that keeps sparking these fires. So so we, we can put the fire out, but we got to eventually figure out how to get inside the walls and really do the necessary work that we got to do in order to ensure that the fires don't come back. Right, Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right Now, that's exactly it. And in San Jose there's a significant homeless population in our county, like 35,000 to 40,000 people. But when you compare that to the extremely low-income communities in our neighborhood or in our Santa Clara County, there's actually 350,000 people who are one or two paychecks away from being homeless, who are one or two paychecks or who are making decisions on do we have rice, do I get diapers, do we buy baby formula, do we? People are having to make those choices, and so for us, part of it is if we can go on the other side.
Speaker 3:And then the homeless challenge is so it's in your face, right, you see it on the streets, you see it under the bridges, like that, you see it by the creeks. But when I drive by somebody's home, I don't see that there's poverty in the home. I just see a home that maybe looks a little run down, but otherwise you figure it's okay. And so one of the areas we want to go is to those extremely low income communities to pull them back away from the cliff of homelessness, right, and so that we can start to, like people can have a little bit of going to to, you know, survive and thrive and so on, right, Right, right, nettie, I'm thinking this.
Speaker 1:this very much aligns with some of the things that we're doing at Mission Mississippi. He talked about the cohort. We you know, elliot, we're looking even at our first inaugural cohort, so to speak. We're called it the Mississippi Leadership Initiative and it extends past pastors. We're just looking for reconcilers that have leadership ability and leadership reputation in their communities but passionate about Christian reconciliation, to bring in and to have dialogue, discussion, challenge and equip and then send back out into their local context to influence and impact the community in a real and deep way.
Speaker 1:And so very much, you know, it's interesting to see God at work both, both in your neck of the woods, san Jose, california, and and all the way down here in Mississippi, and he's doing similar things. So that's really interesting. I'm interested to, as we talk about similarities, I'm interested to compare notes to see if you see challenges that are similar. Of course you talk about Lil Faye first being birthed out of this challenge, this kind of catalytic moment with the George Floyd murder. What challenges do you see in your neck of the woods, in your space, that Live Faith First? We talked about some of the community challenges economic disparities but what challenges in reconciliation in particular? Do you see in your community that Real Faith First is diving first into trying to bring some resolution and some support to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a great question and, like you say, every community kind of brings their own kind of set of challenges and of course, you know, california is a very interesting place for all kinds of reasons. I will say that. But you know, kind of one of them is we're very transient, right, so we have a lot of just people who are not from California initially Coming and going, coming and going, and extremely diverse, so it's not just African-American and white, you know, african-american and everything in between, right Asian, hispanic, latino, all of that. And so it's interesting that segregation that we see is around neighborhoods, and so there's neighborhoods that are predominantly Hispanic or predominantly Vietnamese or predominantly Chinese or predominantly Indian, and often those communities don't overlap a lot.
Speaker 1:Does that extend Elliot to business? Does that extend to worship as well, beyond just living space living quarters? Does that extend um Elliot to business? Does that extend to worship as well, um, beyond just living space living quarters, would you say so for?
Speaker 3:church, absolutely. Uh. Now there are definitely churches that you walk in and you're like, oh, this looks like our community, uh, but you can also go into churches and it's like, no, we're, we're, this is the you know, and you fill in the blank ethnicity, church, um, and so, absolutely there. And yeah, businesses, it's. It is interesting Like we have an Asian market not too far from you and you go in and it's it. It always trips me out because the you know, the vast majority of the customers there are Asian, but then like about a third are Hispanic, because it's kind of in a Hispanic neighborhood, and then like there's like 5% maybe white people. I'm just kind of guessing on those numbers, but it is kind of interesting when you're like, you're looking around and you're like, well, you know, I'm back in Nigeria again, I'm, I'm I'm not the majority here at all, you know, but it's also a bit of a mix. So it's an interesting California's kind of a weird beast.
Speaker 3:But one of the things you said on our podcast that I really appreciated is we rub elbows but we're not good friends, and that really resonated with me because, yeah, absolutely In your workplace, absolutely the grocery store, the mall, you know, anytime you go to concerts, whatever you go out, for the most part, you know, anytime you go to concerts, whatever you go out, for the most part you know it's very diverse. But is that leading to close friendships? Uh, is that leading to close connection? And I think that's the piece of where we really wanted to overcome that at live faith. First is how are we giving opportunity for people to overlap and build friendship, build relationship? Um cause, it's one thing to like put up with one another, but it's another thing to love somebody, and that love is what we're aiming for.
Speaker 2:Well, you know Mississippi, the whole DNA and everything is built around this relational relationship, prayer kind of thing, and you know, I want to know what attracted you and how you connected with Mississippi and why you were interested in what we're doing in Mississippi all the way from.
Speaker 3:California. Hey, yeah, one. I think it's because, I mean, there's a couple of things. One you guys have been doing this for so many years, this for so many years, and so just the history, the experience, the things that I'm able to glean from what you guys have done, it's an honor to get to learn like, okay, people are doing this. It's also an honor to learn from people who are doing it and, from my perspective, one of the more segregated, separated communities in the nation.
Speaker 3:Now again, this is California, looking at Mississippi. But when I kind of picture that that's, that's kind of that's kind of the picture I have in my mind, it actually I told my brother-in-law, who lives in Houston, like it kind of freaks me out to think about doing this in the South, like I'm really comfortable with it in California because I know this place but the thoughts of doing this, so you know, and because you guys bring a whole different you know history and attitude and background, community wise, and then, of course, y'all what you have done. So for me it's because, I'll be honest, I feel like you're way more on the front lines of this than I am, in that you know, if there's racism in California it's way more hidden. I'll just say it that way, where I it my.
Speaker 3:My opinion is that in Mississippi it might be a little more obvious obvious a little more out there, and so that's why I've loved just to hear the things you've done, but also like, hey, these are people who've been doing it on the front line for decades and they they definitely have something to speak into how we do this really well.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think I think historically, you know, the racism, race, racial division, things of that nature certainly is more overt in the South than it, than it would have been considered in California. Obviously, california had its own share of stories as well, but our history certainly is a lot more vast and a lot more deep as it relates to racial division. But I do think that 2024, that a lot of the struggle as it relates to segregation, separation, is definitely more covert in Mississippi, just as covert in many ways as you would see in California, like you mentioned, that separation and segregation and people probably all saying to themselves we don't hate each other, right, we just we don't connect and we don't have any any real desire or motivation to do so, even though we've been called by God and all you know, in all situations that we read in scripture we hear this very loud call from God that we should be united. We have kind of settled in our pockets of differences, whether it be ethnicity, politics, et cetera, and so I think that's not just a California issue but that's a Mississippi issue, where and in fact I think is one of the challenges you talk about that may be unique, I think, one of the challenges.
Speaker 1:That's unique for Mississippi is that because we don't have the historical piece anymore and we've seen, or we've seen a lot of progression historically where we're not using separate water fountains and and we do have the freedom to exist in the same space, have the freedom to exist in the same space, I think it's easy for Mississippians to say, man, look at how far we've come, we don't have any further to go. It's like no, no, no, we still got plenty, plenty room to grow and plenty room to travel, or plenty more road to travel on this journey. But it's easy for us to look back at our past and say, man, we've come so far. I don't think we have much, much room to grow. And so I think that might be one of the distinctions between a California and a and a and a Mississippi.
Speaker 3:No, absolutely, and I do think that, like you say, here, you just kind of go yeah, we're together, nobody's fighting, you know, nobody's being lynched, there's nothing, you know, overt going on. By the way, there's no lynches in Mississippi.
Speaker 2:It's good, it's very good.
Speaker 3:But you know, I mean, around COVID we have a massive Asian population and so Asian hate grew at the beginning of COVID. Oh yeah, and so it still exists. And it's interesting when you hear it. I mean, for me I'm shocked. Like, really, we still think this way, like, whether or not the origin of this is the virus was in China, which, right Like it was, so let's go with that. But like, really, the average person who's been living in San Francisco or San Jose or Fremont for their entire life, like they were born, raised here, like it's their fault, like is that what we're doing right now? Come on y'all and so, um it, it, it's. It's weird, and I think one of the things I think you touched on this is there tends to be an apathy around this because we've come far enough, or that idea that, well, we've come far enough, it's good, it's good enough, right, like it's it's enough, and to to realize it it's, it's not enough yet, absolutely Still, it's still not enough.
Speaker 2:It's certainly not where God wanted it to be.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Right, absolutely. There's so much, so much room left. And I see this too in very, very much like a, like a muscle that atrophies if you don't work it. If we don't spend time engaged in these kinds of conversations regularly, if we don't spend time crossing crossing those barriers regularly, building and cultivating healthy relationships across these dividing lines regularly or regularly, then it starts to atrophy and we start to lose our ability to do it well. And we have a.
Speaker 1:We have a tendency to have a wartime mentality when it comes to racial division, in the sense that something happens, whether it be COVID, and all of a sudden this kind of real this, this real kind of out of nowhere Asian distrust starts to crop up and you're like wait a second, what's going on?
Speaker 1:Or George Floyd or Ahmaud Arbery happens and we say wait a second, what's going on? And then all of a sudden we rally in and and we say, okay, we're going to pray together, we're going to have some discussions, we're going to pray together, we're going to have some discussions, we're going to, we're going to do some things, we're going to host some events, and then that happens. And then we, when we get back to quote, unquote peacetime, we start to kind of dissipate again and go back to our corners and say everything's OK and and start dismissing the reality that no, there's just some, they're just simmering under the surface, is another opportunity for an explosion if we don't do this kind of work during the seasons of peace, and so we tend to not have a very good preparation plan in peacetime, and so that's why wartime for us, as it relates to racial division, is always so explosive. Is that? Is that something that resonates with you and you guys over at Live Faith First? Is that something that resonates?
Speaker 3:with you and you guys over at Live Faith First, a hundred percent. I've said this multiple times. Unfortunately, another George Floyd is coming. It's going to happen and, as a church, are we in a better place now than we were in 2020.
Speaker 3:Because I know as a pastor at a church executive pastor at a church I was dealing with the emotions of how could this happen in our country, the emotions of there's riots happening in my neighborhood, there's protests that as soon as it gets dark, it turns to riots and mattresses being set on fire. And the protest stream came. Like I live on the corner of 13th and Reed or Williams, and they came down to Williams, one house off of mine, and sent them down another way. So I'm dealing with that. And then you're also and just the emotions of it dealing with it in that like, wow, this is happening around me. Why are there's nothing but helicopters and sirens and all of the discombobulation in that. And then how do you shepherd a church through this? You know, feeling absolutely lost. For what's the right response? Like, is this? Like just, we need another bible study? Yeah, let's just have a community group curriculum around. Uh, you know, ethnic reconciliation.
Speaker 3:And then we've done our duty right, we're good, let's let's spend six weeks, right, let's do a six-week study and then, once we do that, hey, we're good, we're good, we have a lot of it'll be video driven too, we'll have around it, and then we're done and it's all within our own church and with our own comfort zone, right, all this stuff.
Speaker 3:And so for me, it was like I want us to be better, so that there's a group whether it's five churches or 50 churches this shows up on the hall, on the city hall, where there's protests going on, and this group of pastors is saying we feel your pain, we love all y'all. Can we pray for peace in the midst of this and actually be the healing balm that the church is designed to be for our larger community? And so I love this analogy that you use the wartime, peacetime kind of analogy, because I feel like that's exactly it, and I think that harkens back to the apathy that I mentioned a minute ago, because now it's like, well, we're good and we're good, and maybe I did enough work in 2020 that our church will be fine and it.
Speaker 2:You know, our definition of a peacetime is the lack of conflict. In actuality, it's just under the surface, it's like a tip of the iceberg, and you know, and so we, we, we think, until George Floyd happens, everything is OK. But then, when it happened, all of this stuff bubbles up like a volcano. George Floyd happens, everything is okay, but then, when it happened, all of this stuff bubbles up like a volcano. We're like where did that come from? Well, it was there all the time, we just didn't recognize it. So it's got to be all gone.
Speaker 2:I was thinking a minute ago, when you were talking about George peacetime, wartime as Brian described I was just thinking about what happened with Peter in Galatians 2, when Paul showed up for his re-ups and called Peter in the act of walking away from the Gentiles, when he had been hanging out with them and joined the pig man, and all of a sudden now can't do that because his brother showed up and he played the part of the hypocrite, to the point that Paul had to call out Barnabas as well.
Speaker 2:And so it's interesting how that makeup of what we consider peacetime and what we consider wartime because you know, we think, well, nobody's hanging anybody, nobody's, you know, wearing sheets, at least not obvious anyway and so everything is copacetic. In actuality it's not, and we all combine in the same spaces, but we're separated within the space we occupy. It's always amazing to me. I ship out to Mississippi meeting and they say, okay, come in, and we're going to have to move because all the white folks sitting at the table, all the black folks sitting at the table, all the black folks sitting at the table, they're having a great time. And then you look and see, and isn't this beautiful? Aren't we united? Look at how united we are. We're all in this room together. That's always interesting to me when we decide, not that the circumstances of what's happening in reality decide, but we decide within our own mind what is okay, what is not okay as it relates to the race relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hey, elliot man, I know you're a busy man, so let's turn the corner here and wrap up by allowing you some time to talk about what's encouraging you as you think about. We've talked about challenges that we're facing both in Mississippi and in California. Talk a little bit about what's encouraging you as you think about what's happening in California the work of reconciliation with Live Faith First.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the big thing coming up for us. We're an interesting organization because, you know, for one, we're very on the ground with cohorts and serving and so on. But then anytime there's kind of larger, kind of cultural polarization, we also want to have a voice in that. And so it's election season, right, it's 2024. Presidential election is is a few months away, heating up here, and so, starting in August, we're going to do a pretty significant campaign which we're calling LRK, which stands for Love, respect and Kindness, and it's our opportunity to speak into our nation really and say no matter what you believe, no matter what your political party is, no matter what your background is I mean all of the things that we choose to divide us we have to treat one another with love, respect and kindness, like that is the norm that should sit within our polarization in our society right now, and as a nation, we've, like actually polarization wise returned back to post-reconstruction era polarization. So right after civil war, when there was a ton of polarization, that's like we're at the same level again now, and so it's really exciting. So Absolutely, hopefully, by the time this comes out, go check out our website, mustdobetterorg. Mustdobetterorg. We have a pledge there that says talking about hey, how do we treat one another with love, respect and kindness, community? To do that, we have a gratitude journal. So do 30 days around.
Speaker 3:The truth is is we get so caught up in some of these like minutiae that the honest truth is it doesn't matter that much. And so how do we build gratitude into our lives so that some of these things which we might see on some of the news networks they get ahold of us put that fear in us. We need to be looking elsewhere. So Gratitude Journal, we have community group curriculum, like video driven, and one is Bible based and another is community based. So we're looking like, hey, churches invite people from your community and it doesn't have to say Jesus to actually have Jesus in it. So all of these concepts.
Speaker 3:If you go to mustdobetterorg it's not a Christian website, other than the underpinnings of it are 100% Christian but you won't see Bible verses, you won't see the name of Jesus, because we know that there's people who they automatically tune out as soon as it becomes a religious thing. And so this is what's exciting me right now is what we're doing with LRK. Our hope is that this will be a movement through California, but we hope it crosses the nation to some degree, crosses the uh, the nation to some degree, and just remind people that there's another way to treat one another, that we don't have to get caught up in the polarization and that, uh, we can, we can live LRK and that love, respect and kindness and, um, maybe make a little bit of a difference in this election season.
Speaker 1:Amen, amen. Our theme this year, elliot, is living reconciled by loving all our neighbors, and we thought about that thing very much with the election season in mind, and how easy it is when these political moments come to the surface, how easy it is for us to start otherizing people and to no longer see the people that we meet along the way as the neighbors that Jesus has called and commanded us to love well and to extend ourselves to and towards. And so it becomes very easy to look at Elliot Sands and whatever Republican, democrat or independent label he wears and to immediately, based on that label, start otherizing you rather than seeing you as a neighbor that God has called me and commanded me of well. And so I love, I love the LRK. We'll be definitely praying and supporting you guys in that movement.
Speaker 1:I'm going to spend some time jotting some notes down in the gratitude journal myself to remind myself of all of the wonderful things that God has done for us and how we should be grateful for those things. And you're right, elliot, man, gratitude does fuel so much calm and so much peace and so much warm in the way that we engage the world around us, and so that's a wonderful initiative, brother. Thank you so much for sharing about that For someone who needs to get in contact with Elliot Sands and Live Faith First. How can they keep up with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so our organization's website is livefaithfirstorg, so feel free to go there If you actually want to reach out to me. There's a connect button there and send me a note. I'm also on Instagram. It's probably where I am mostly, but you'll find all of everything. Live faith first is at live faith first, so YouTube for our, our, our, our shorts and, and, uh, our podcast and Instagram, facebook all of that is at live faith first, so that's where you'll find us Fantastic, fantastic Brother.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for for joining us today. We really really appreciate it For our listeners who are listening in. You can always get in contact with us at Living Reconciled. Any podcast app that you use you can connect with us there and, please, we would love for you to like, share and subscribe to this podcast. Also, feel free to visit us on missionmississippiorg. If there's any way we can support you as it relates to coming to your church, your school, your business, for training, for speaking engagements, for encouragement, we would love to connect with you.
Speaker 1:We also have, on September the 26th of this year September the 26th at the Brandon Civic Center, our annual Living Reconciled celebration. It is going to be a day filled with all sorts of fun, filled with all sorts of encouragement and growth and learning. We have a conference in the afternoon. We have a banquet event in the evening. That's sure to be a beautiful and fun time and we would love for you to take part in that. So you can get more information on that at our website, missionmississippiorg. It's been a fantastic podcast with Elliot Sands and my good friend Nettie Winters. We're signing off here saying God bless, god bless, thanks for joining Living Reconciled. If you would like more information on how you can be a part of the ongoing work of helping Christians learn how to live in the reconciliation that Jesus has already secured, please visit us online at missionmississippiorg or call us at 601-353-6477. Thanks again for listening.
